Only have time for one post today and I've had this one marked for several days now.

Scott, that's so nice to see you discovering the layers .

I am a bit worried though that I am giving a wrong impression on the consistency issue. It is hard to get numbers consistent from batch to batch but if you are using the same ingredients, it is not hard to get consistency in the end result. Dilutions at the right time to correct for the unknowns of evaporation etc work really well. The main problems in consistency are not from numbers but more from ingredients, especially hops which can change so much, in all ways, from one season to the next.

Does that help/make sense?


PP

Thanks PP.

Okay, I think I understand. You are saying we can nail down the Process, and get the things we are doing as consistent as possible - and that is important for making consistently good beer. Also super important if things need to be scaled, etc. But the other part of the equation is ingredient variation and that one is more difficult. So differences in ingredients will still cause variations, and there is not much the home brewer can do about that, besides making dilutions if necessary, etc. So do what you can, and after that follow Charlie Pappazian's advice of "Dont worry and have a home brew". Okay that last little bit is from me, but after you've made your best effort - that's really all you can do as a home brewer. Right?

You are bang on there Scott!
If we can get our processes to be consistent we will make consistently good beer. With the inconsistencies of the ingredients we will still get consistently good beer but may be slightly different than the last batch of the same beer.

It's close to what I meant Scott but not quite. Let me put it another way...

Firstly, I want to be setting up my brew mathematics so as I end up diluting on nearly all my brews* because I can't predict what the evaporation will be on any given brew day. Diluting with decent water in the fermentor, if not overdone is perfectly fine.

What this means is if I buy Grains A, B, C, and Hops P, Q, R to make Recip X, I might....

On Brew Day 1: Have 80% Kettle Efficiency and 4 litres of evaporation and use 500 mls to dilute my pitching wort to the correct OG.

If I keep my Grains A, B and C uncrushed and cool and dry and my Pellet Hops P, Q, and R sealed and frozen, then four months later...

On Brew Day 2: I might have 85% Kettle Efficiency and 3 litres of evaporation and use 2.5 litres to dilute my pitching wort to the correct OG.

The beer resulting from Brew Day 1 and Bew Day 2 should taste almost identical, if not identical.

Next year though, the grains A, B and C will definitely come from a different harvest and malting. As far as I know, I don't think this would be a worry to we homebrewers on most of our recipes. Maybe something like peat malt or smoked malt does change significantly but I really don't know. Hops P, Q and R from the next season may or may not be similiar to last season. Sometimes there can be a massive difference and, in fact, you may not be able to produce anything like last year's beer if you use that same hop again.

Let's pretend that Hops P, Q and R were actually all Amarillo. Amarillo is usually full of flavour and aroma but on one recent year, it had almost none so...

A hop variety's ability to provide flavour and aroma can occasionally be vastly different from one season to the next. If it is, then no matter how good your processes are, you will not be able to produce the same beer as the year before. You will have to use alternative hops or alternative hopping methods.

This is always the hardest thing for micro and craft breweries. Come to think of it. it might be a big reason why the big commercials haven't jumped into more flavour and aroma orientated beers .

So, don't expect or worry if you squeeze a bit more into the kettle on one batch or have different evaporation and trubs. It's not a worry and is normal.


PP

* The BIABAcus defaults aim to do this for you.

Thanks PP.

I have certainly experienced the evaporation issue. Feel like a newbie with that process and the only way to gain more hands-on knowledge in properly dealing with it is by doing more BIAB brew batches. But logically I do understand it...

And with hops, all I can say is okay... Formerly I would have thought, do the math on the new year's Alpha Acid level vs the previous year's AA and use that to determine how much to use. And I would still do that as there is no other method I know of to try to match hop bitterness. And Cascade should taste like Cascade, year end and year out, and Saaz like Saaz... But I think I understand you...that there are other things with hop and flavor that are not reflected in AA ratings that will affect their flavor, and these cause differences in different years' hops.

You did not say this, but that would also mean hops potentially grown at different places in the same year would have similar differences in flavor, subtle variations... And there is nothing we can do about that. Sounds like another way of rating hop flavor and bitterness needs to be developed. Does this all "jive" with what you are trying to communicate to me...?

So this is one of those things of more layers of knowledge being added. So the more I learn (have learned a ton) I begin to realize how much more there is to learn... Well, one step at a time. And thank you for all your help!

Scott wrote:So this is one of those things of more layers of knowledge being added. So the more I learn (have learned a ton) I begin to realize how much more there is to learn...

I don't think you have too much to learn.

There are definitely a heap of layers of layers of knowledge in brewing but most layers are not important or even relevant to most brewers. For example, in my last post here, I didn't mention water. I did say something like, if your water tastes okay then you are all good but, where I live, my water comes from three different sources (dams, artesian bores and desalination plants). Occasionally, not often, I can taste the difference.

I've brewed many beers regardless of this and they have been great.

What this site is doing, largely one on one atm (massively expensive time-wise), is trying to, expose you to the layers that are relevant to you at the right time. Some of you have already noticed how the BIABacus does this and might know of how much work goes on here behind the scenes but...

THE ONLY IMPORTANT LESSON IS TASTE YOUR BEER AS THOUGH YOU HAVE NEVER TASTED ANYTHING ELSE. Is it yum or crap?

....

As to your questions on hops above... Yep, you do adjust for the AA%. It is the only thing you can do because it is the only info you are given. On your bittering hops, that usually works out well but as you have alluded to above, it would be fantastic if measurable indicators were available for not just bitterness but flavour and aroma as well.

You mentioned above about the same variety of hops being grown at different places at the same time an d having totally different characteristics. You are perfectly correct. I've written on this before on this forum but I'd love someone to research it.... The 2014 Hallertau (I think???) crop from Germany varied by about 6AA%. (Ring Roy at TWOC. He will know what I am talking about.)

Think of your flavour and aroma hops as garlic. We all know garlic. We all know that some bulbs are potent and aromatic. Has anyone worked out a way of measurinmg that apart form their nose? I don't think they have. Don't expect our hop varierty to be any more reliable thatn garlic.


PP

Well, I am brewing my 4th BIAB today, a Dry Irish Stout. Not a large grain bill. Discovered that with some vigorous stirring, the temperature is the same in the center of the mash as the outside brew kettle temperature gauge. I was prepared to pour from the kettle into a pitcher and back into the wort (the BobBrews method described above), but it was not necessary. Maybe it would be a help if the mash was double the size...so "good to know" the technique, in case it is needed in the future.