Hi All,
I just finished my 2nd BIAB brew, I'm using AG kits supplied by a local HBS.
Recipe 2: OG 1042, PG 1010, ABV 4.2%
My brew : OG 1036, PG 1010, ABV 3.6%
Recipe 1: OG 1049, PG 1012, ABV 4.9%
My brew : OG 1044, PG 1012. ABV 4.0%
I've read that I should expect a lower efficiency and probably add a bigger grain bill for BIAB.
However, are my results 'normal'? or should I be getting better efficiency?
Post #2 made 10 years ago
Hi FatTulip. Whats your setup? Are u mashing full volume? What sort of bag have you got? Did you do 90 or 60min mash?
Post #3 made 10 years ago
Hi, I did a full mash using a 40l buffalo boiler. Put in 33l ended up with 21l in FV.
My bag is a 40l bag from biab.co.uk
My bag is a 40l bag from biab.co.uk
Post #4 made 10 years ago
Hi FatTulip,
Will need more info to see what is going on. I know it was a ag kit but do you know the grain bill? Did the grain come crushed? If so what was the crush like? Any uncracked grains?
Did you give the grain a good stir during mash in and mash. Did you do a mash out?
So many questions....
Will need more info to see what is going on. I know it was a ag kit but do you know the grain bill? Did the grain come crushed? If so what was the crush like? Any uncracked grains?
Did you give the grain a good stir during mash in and mash. Did you do a mash out?
So many questions....
Post #5 made 10 years ago
Also volumes would help, was it supposed to make 21 litres? And is that after boil? Into packaging?
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
Welcome Tulip! You have made it to the right place... answer all of the above questions, the people here really know BIAB inside and out.FatTulip wrote:I've read that I should expect a lower efficiency and probably add a bigger grain bill for BIAB.
However, it sounds like you have some misconceptions about BIAB. It's gonna be really hard to help you out before you get some basic info down... please see the Clear Brewing Terminology posts here. It makes communicating about BIAB and brewing in general much easier. Also check out the BIABicus and you'll see that true, full volume, BIAB is as efficient as, and for many brewers, more efficient than other brewing methods.
I think you'll see, once you understand the CBT, that you may not have an efficiency problem at all... you may have used too much water for the grains you were given to hit your OGs. In other words, you probably have done nothing wrong at all, it is probably a faulty recipe. Very hard to tell without the right info.
Jeff
Last edited by safebrew222 on 26 Feb 2015, 11:16, edited 1 time in total.
Post #7 made 10 years ago
One thing is, How many litres does the kits make? 21L or closer to 19L?
One senerio is your finished volume is higher than the kits.
MS
One senerio is your finished volume is higher than the kits.
MS
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
Hi All, thanks for the replies.
Recipe 1:
4.25kg Maris Otter
30g Black Malt
Recipe 2:
4.719kg Pale ale malt (4 ECB or less)
200g Crystal Malt
100g Torrified Wheat
15g Chocolate Malt
Both recipes:
make 23 litres
- 90 mins mash (66oC)
- 90 mins boil
assume 75% efficiency
Just to answer some more questions, the grain came pre crushed for both recopies and by the look of it they did a good job, so I don't think that's the issue. I did also give them a good stir before mash.
I did not do a mash out, I just leave the bag in for 90 mins, then rest it on a grate on top of the kettle and suspend it to drain out the wort.
Recipe 1: I put 35 litre TWN and I think that was actually far too much now.. Since I had a lot leftover after boil, even after putting 25 litre VIF (2 litres over the recipe target).
Recipe 2: After what happened with Recipe 1, I thought I'd reduce the TWN for this recipe and started out with only 33 litres this time.
After adding the grain, strike water was a little too hot (70oC) and I stirred them in for a while until it dropped down to 67oC before closing the lid and insulating. When I took it out after 90mins, it had dropped down to 65oC.
Sadly, I forgot to take the measurement of headspace from my kettle after flame out, which would have enabled me to calculate the evaporation rate.
However, this wort was very cloudy(grain dust) and I could only squeeze 21 litres into the FV. The rest was too sludgy/hoppy.. I even found that in my FV, after a few hours a lot of this dust has settled forming an inch thick layer on the bottom!
So I guess all in all, I'm more curious about Recipe 2... since I'm pretty sure it was just a case of too much water for recipe 1.
Recipe 1:
4.25kg Maris Otter
30g Black Malt
Recipe 2:
4.719kg Pale ale malt (4 ECB or less)
200g Crystal Malt
100g Torrified Wheat
15g Chocolate Malt
Both recipes:
make 23 litres
- 90 mins mash (66oC)
- 90 mins boil
assume 75% efficiency
Just to answer some more questions, the grain came pre crushed for both recopies and by the look of it they did a good job, so I don't think that's the issue. I did also give them a good stir before mash.
I did not do a mash out, I just leave the bag in for 90 mins, then rest it on a grate on top of the kettle and suspend it to drain out the wort.
Recipe 1: I put 35 litre TWN and I think that was actually far too much now.. Since I had a lot leftover after boil, even after putting 25 litre VIF (2 litres over the recipe target).
Recipe 2: After what happened with Recipe 1, I thought I'd reduce the TWN for this recipe and started out with only 33 litres this time.
After adding the grain, strike water was a little too hot (70oC) and I stirred them in for a while until it dropped down to 67oC before closing the lid and insulating. When I took it out after 90mins, it had dropped down to 65oC.
Sadly, I forgot to take the measurement of headspace from my kettle after flame out, which would have enabled me to calculate the evaporation rate.
However, this wort was very cloudy(grain dust) and I could only squeeze 21 litres into the FV. The rest was too sludgy/hoppy.. I even found that in my FV, after a few hours a lot of this dust has settled forming an inch thick layer on the bottom!
So I guess all in all, I'm more curious about Recipe 2... since I'm pretty sure it was just a case of too much water for recipe 1.
Post #9 made 10 years ago
Well, those recipes check out, should be able to hit that OG or probably even a bit higher with that grain bill and 23 litres into fermenter. How are you measuring gravity? If by hydrometer are you cooling the sample first?
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
When I took the Hydrometer reading it would have been around 20oC. However, I think I really need to get better at logging this kind of thing!
Post #11 made 10 years ago
Maybe test your hydrometer out in some water around that temp and see if it is 1.00, something easy to rule out...
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
I took a look at your recipe #2, like goulaigan said, the grain bill checks out on the BIABacus at the 75% kettle efficiency setting. I ran your numbers (clues) based on 23L (makes) into finished product, that is VIP and 24.1L into fermentor VIF.
You got an extremely bad efficiency.
With that said, I have no idea what happened. Anyone have an idea?
You got an extremely bad efficiency.
With that said, I have no idea what happened. Anyone have an idea?
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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 27 Feb 2015, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #13 made 10 years ago
Thermometer?
If it reads low, your grain saw more than 70C for a while. Beta amylase may not recover from that
If it reads low, your grain saw more than 70C for a while. Beta amylase may not recover from that
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #14 made 10 years ago
I actually have two different thermometers and they are both reading the same results.
Here is my hydrometer reading, reading taken at 20oC dropped into water.
Isn't this a bit off?
Here is my hydrometer reading, reading taken at 20oC dropped into water.
Isn't this a bit off?
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Last edited by FatTulip on 27 Feb 2015, 17:35, edited 1 time in total.
Post #15 made 10 years ago
You are already ahead of the game by using 2 thermometers Fat Tulip.
However, before writing off that it could be a temp issue, have a read of this.
I'm not saying that is your issue, just trying to make you more aware.
Not sure about your hydro though; are you saying when you placed it in 20C water it read 0.996?
However, before writing off that it could be a temp issue, have a read of this.
I'm not saying that is your issue, just trying to make you more aware.
Not sure about your hydro though; are you saying when you placed it in 20C water it read 0.996?
Last edited by mally on 27 Feb 2015, 18:29, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #16 made 10 years ago
Yes, that's how I read my hydrometer. 0.996 instead of 1.000 when put into water. Green arrow in pic shows where the water level was. That is incorrect, no?
Bought it off eBAy - Maybe I need to get down to HBS and buy a new one if this is out?
As for temps, it's certainly something I'll consider.
Also - if I add my grain bill, maybe 70oC is too high for what is really needed?
Perhaps I should get SWT to 68oC instead as there wasn't as much heat loss as i'd expected after adding all my grain. I thought it would have dropped a lot more than it did.
Bought it off eBAy - Maybe I need to get down to HBS and buy a new one if this is out?
As for temps, it's certainly something I'll consider.
Also - if I add my grain bill, maybe 70oC is too high for what is really needed?
Perhaps I should get SWT to 68oC instead as there wasn't as much heat loss as i'd expected after adding all my grain. I thought it would have dropped a lot more than it did.
Post #17 made 10 years ago
There are several factors at play.
One is the unknown headspace measurement at flameout. That could have been calculated to find VAW, from there VIF and KFL.
You will probably find that you made good beer, albeit you just won't know the actual numbers.
Let us know how it comes out.
MS
One is the unknown headspace measurement at flameout. That could have been calculated to find VAW, from there VIF and KFL.
You will probably find that you made good beer, albeit you just won't know the actual numbers.
Let us know how it comes out.
MS
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Post #18 made 10 years ago
That Hydro doesn't sound too good to me.
Some are calibrated at 15/16C, but 0.004 off for pure water doesn't hack it IMHO whatever the cal temp.
I have to agree with Richards last comments though.
Even I still see variances similar to what you have (+/- 0.005 gravity) on an average brew.
If you are still getting -0.005 after a few more brews (especially armed with volume measurements) I would then have a re-think.
Some are calibrated at 15/16C, but 0.004 off for pure water doesn't hack it IMHO whatever the cal temp.
I have to agree with Richards last comments though.
Even I still see variances similar to what you have (+/- 0.005 gravity) on an average brew.
If you are still getting -0.005 after a few more brews (especially armed with volume measurements) I would then have a re-think.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #19 made 10 years ago
Thanks for all the replies. There are some really valuable lessons for me here, I sure have a lot more work to do for my next brew but looking forward to it already 
