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First BIAB Sweet Stout with Lactose

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by xfumbler
I did my first BIAB, a sweet stout, this past weekend and my questions mostly resolve around whether I filled out the BIABacus correctly.
I created the recipe from a number of sources though it is similar to the Jamil Triple-X Stout Recipe.

I entered 1.076 as the original gravity based off the grain bill by using a calculator from another website assuming 75% efficiency.
My mash was for 90 min @151. My gravity into boil reading was actually 1.040 but I took that reading without cooling the wort so I adjusted that reading to account for the 150 degree mash temperature which is where I got the 1.058 reading. I think my hydrometer is set for 60 degrees, it says T:60 on it. Apparently these type of adjustments aren’t accurate but it’s the best number I have. Next time I need to cool the wort before taking the reading.

My gravity reading after the boil, before pitching, was 1.071.

I put in the lactose 10 mins before flame out.

My Questions:
1) Are there any screw-ups in filling out the worksheet?
2) I entered 0 and 0.0 under Lactose in the Section Y of the form. I searched high and low on the boards looking for info on this part. Did I do that correctly?
3) My gravity into boil measurement does not account for the lactose as I added it later, does this number need further adjustment to take into account that fact?
I ended up overflowing the pot because I underestimated the amount my pot could hold. BIABacus does provide the “WARNING: Mash volume approached kettle limits” for the recipe. But I actually did the brew before I used the BIABacus. Serves me right.

I did have fun though, it’s a pretty straightforward process, and my big original worry about maintaining mash temperatures was not an issue at all. With no head space at all I dropped one degree during the 90 min mash.

I’m already thinking of my next brew and this one is weeks from bottling!
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Post #2 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Welcome to the forum xfumbler :peace:,

I'm a little short on time but here's a couple of things for you...

1. It looks as though at some stage you have saved the BIABacus as something other than an .xls file. This results in the cell protection being removed which makes it easy to accidentally remove formulas. (May cells that look blank actually have hidden formulas in them.) I can see several critical formulas missing so you'll have to re-type this into a BIABacus you know is uncorrupted. (PITA I know but you'll only make that error once ;)). Here is a final pre-release version that is good to use.

2. With lactose, while it is not fermentable, it does add gravity (heaviness). In Section Y use 75 and 0. The main effect of this will be to increas the final gravity higher than estimated but FG is pretty much a ball-park figure anyway and depends on many things.

3. Section D requires one of the first two lines to be filled out. You'll most likely need more help on this but maybe this post will get you on the way?

4. Seems a funny shaped pot - wide and shallow. If you get a lot of evaporation on the next brew, on the third one consider adjusting the evaporation rate by using Section X.

5. Boiling for 90 minutes on all-grain beers is best practice but many brewers would probably be unable to detect the difference between a 60 min and 90 min boil in most styles so don't get too worried about that.

6. Nothing more to worry about on this first brew. You picked up the main thing of cooling your gravity readings :salute:. Also don't worry about your numbers being a little off.

7. Just getting back to number 3 above. You see how there are no numbers on the right hand side of Section D? This means something is missing. You should never buy the weights displayed on the left hand side of Section C or D. You must always brew with the quantities listed on the right hand side. (For example, for this recipe, you should have bought 5970 grams of fermentables not 5173 grams.)

Congratulations xfumbler :clap:. Please keep us informed,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Aug 2014, 19:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
by xfumbler
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

1) Fixed.
2) Done.
3) Done. I entered the IBU from the original recipe as I don't know what the VAW would be.

4) My brother bought me the equipment for Christmas a while ago, it is very wide and low.

5) This is the first time I've read about a 90 min boil, I always thought 60 was standard. I would have to reduce my expectations for an ending volume. I will definitely make a smaller batch next time.

6) Yeah somehow I will have to collect and label my samples. I'm not worried about the numbers now (probably will get paranoid later on). This batch is in the history books and will turn out how ever it was intended to, no changing that at this point. At this point I'm trying to understand the spreadsheet.

7) Ok this is where you've opened my eyes, I think. Is the right hand side making adjustments to counter for the differences required in BIAB from traditional recipes?

I have not attached the new file as I'm still working on it.

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond.
Last edited by xfumbler on 16 Aug 2014, 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #4 made 11 years ago
by xfumbler
What I attempted to do with this version of the BIABacus is to enter the numbers in such a manner as to get BIABacus to show what I actually did.

I entered what I actually did on the left side of Section C. I then entered 1.068 as an OG so that I (roughly) get what I actually did to show up under the “What you will use…” section of section C.

I then changed the desired IBU in section D to 21 to match the amount of hops I actually used (and the actual IBU I want).

1) Does everything look ok now?

2) If I do another recipe where I boil for 90 minutes do I change my hop additions? Say the recipe asks for a 60 min boil with hops added at 60min, 30min and 0min. How would I adjust the hops additions for a 90 min boil?

3) I get an error every time I open the original downloaded file. It says: "This workbook contains defined names that conflict with valid cell references." Is this a problem?
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good stuff xfumbler,

Regarding entering the IBU's from the original recipe, this is often all you can do but be aware that the number can be very misleading. See here.

Regarding the boil, it is not a critical thing in many styles and/or situations. It can prevent some problems and is best practice - see here. You won't have to lower your expectations, just add soime water during the boil to make up for the extra boil time and...

With such a wide pot, consider floating a stainless steel bowl on the wort during the boil t lower the evaporation rate a bit. Once again. not a critical thing.

As for countering differences from BIAB and traditional recipes, no, that is not correct. The left and right hand side adjust for the differences between two brewers regardless of how they brew. In other words, the left hand side is what the original brewer used based on how much beer they wanted, their kettle efficiency, their evaporation rate and their transfer losses. The right hand side adjusts the numbers on the left to suit how much beer you want. your kettle efficiency, your evaporation rate and your transfer losses.

Every brewer, even if receiving a recipe from the a person using the same method as them, has to adjust for the above.

The right hand side allows you to do one more thing as well, make substitutions. For example, you may be given a recipe where the original brewer used East Kent Goldings of 6.6% Alpha Acid but you can only buy EKG of 5.9%. Type 5.9% on the right and the BIABacus will correct for this.

The New File

Your thinking looks good there xfumbler :peace:. No need to do any adjustemnts on the hops if you change to a 90 minute boil as they are all still getting boiled for the same amount of time. For example, the 60 minute hops just go in 30 minutes after your boil starts. If you did want to add them 15 minutes earlier, what you would do is type 75 under Mins on the right hand side of Section D and the BIAbcus will adjust "What you will use..." accordingly (you'll need a tiny bit less of those bittering hops than if you only boiled them for 60 minutes).

Okay, what's going on with the file??? It's still corrupted as anywhere I click on a blank cell it sends me to BIABrewer!

What program are you using? What operating system? If you are trying to use Excel for Mac, try LibreOffice instead and read this. Annoying stuff when that happens but we've been able to get it to work for everyone to date so it shouldn't take long to do the same for you.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Aug 2014, 19:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #6 made 11 years ago
by xfumbler
Thanks for the explanation it is all much more clear now. The BIABacus is amazingly well thought out, and with such a clever name.

I am running Mac OS X 10.9.4 and using Excel 2008 Version 12.3.6. I re-downloaded the file from here, opened it in Excel and it still gave me the error upon opening.

Here is where the real problem is, the error message notes: "To correct this issue, underscores (_) have been added to the defined names that conflict with the cell references. Conflicting names in XLM macro code have not been changed, and must be corrected manually." Thus I think Excel is changing the file upon opening. In fact, if you close the BIABAcus without making any entry changes, it asks you if you want to save the changes you made.

If you meant to include a link in your last message where you wrote "The New File" I don't see where to click on it. Also, the link you sent in your first reply didn't work, it looks to me like a link to a file on your computer, i.e. it starts with "C:\Program Files\..."

I downloaded LibreOffice and opened the file I had re-downloaded and it gave me no errors.

Next time I will pick a recipe from the "Brewing Classic Styles" book and do this properly with a 90 min boil. That will have to wait though as unfortunately I only have room in my fermenter for one batch!
Last edited by xfumbler on 17 Aug 2014, 21:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
It's amazing how incompatible Excel for Mac is with Windows Excel. Libre Office and Open Office are more compatible on Mac :smoke:.

So, stick with LibreOffice if you can xfumbler. I gather that is working for you fine? Just make sure to always save as an .xls.

I've just fixed the link to BIABAcus PR1.3T - sorry about that! As for "The New File" above, I meant that as a heading referring to your new file so there is no hyperlink missing there.

Keep asking questions if you get stuck on anything else :salute:.
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