First BIAB and First Lager - Mexican Vienna

Post #1 made 12 years ago
Hi all - I'm going to attempt my first all grain, BIAB and Lager all at the same time :scratch:

I have about 10 extract brews under my belt, and have fermentation under control finally.

I'm attempting this (low fidelity) recipe, http://byo.com/stories/item/1564-vienna-lager-in-exile, which I'm hoping is a bit like Dos Equis Special Lager (green bottle).
Double Crossed
(Mexican Vienna Lager)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.044 FG = 1.009
IBU = 21 SRM = 10 ABV = 4.5%
Ingredients
5.0 lbs. (2.3 kg) Breiss Vienna malt
2 lb. 14 oz. (1.3 kg) Briess Pilsen malt
2.0 lbs. (0.91 kg) flaked maize
0.33 lbs. (0.15 kg) crystal malt (60 °L)
5.5 AAU Mt. Hood hops (60 mins) (1.1 oz./31 g of 5% alpha acids)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)
1/4 tsp yeast nutrients (15 mins)
Wyeast 2042 (Danish Lager), White Labs WLP850 (Copenhagen Lager) or White Labs WLP940 (Mexican Lager) yeast (3 qt./~3 L starter)
1 cup corn sugar (for priming)

Step by Step
In your kettle, heat 3 gallons (11 L) of water to 142 °F (61 °C), stir in grains and rest for 15 minutes at 131 °F (55 °C). Heat mash to 148 °F (64 °C) for a 30-minute rest then heat to 160 °F (71 °C) for a 15-minute rest. Heat to 170 °F (77 °C) and transfer to lauter tun. Collect about 5.5 gallons (21 L) of wort, add 1 gallon (3.8 L) of water and boil for 90 minutes, adding hops, Irish moss and yeast nutrients at times indicated in ingredient list. Cool wort to 56 °F (13 °C), transfer to fermenter and aerate. Pitch yeast from (cooled) yeast starter. Ferment at 56 °F (13 °C). Lager for 2 months at 40 °F (4.4 °C) or below.
It's a traditional all grain recipe, so I don't quite understand the mash temps/timing. Also, it appears my 8.5 gallon kettle might be a bit too small for this batch so I might have to break out my old aluminum 60 quart kettle. I attempted a mini-mash with "double crushed" grain from my LHBS and achieved 70% efficiency, so with my new mill set at the appropriate width I hope to achieve near 75% with a full-volume no sparge method.

Can anyone critique my BIABACUS attempt? I think I just need some help with the mash timing/temps.

Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by Chingon on 30 Apr 2014, 12:46, edited 1 time in total.

Post #3 made 12 years ago
Chingon,
It's a traditional all grain recipe, so I don't quite understand the mash temps/timing. Also, it appears my 8.5 gallon kettle might be a bit too small for this batch so I might have to break out my old aluminum 60 quart kettle. I attempted a mini-mash with "double crushed" grain from my LHBS and achieved 70% efficiency, so with my new mill set at the appropriate width I hope to achieve near 75% with a full-volume no sparge method.

Can anyone critique my BIABACUS attempt? I think I just need some help with the mash timing/temps.
You are biting off quite a bit at one time. I hope it goes well for you. Since it is a Lager I expect you have a way (and room) to refrigerate it? Someone else will help you with BIABacus I am no expert at it.

I wish you would brew a simpler beer at the get go. My first BIAB brew was a simple affair, but I still managed to screw it up! BIAB works as advertised so no worries there. Have a good time and don't drink anything until most of the work is done! That is advice from one who knows!

Why are you following that complicated (3V) recipe? :think: I would simplify it (for me). I would do a single infusion mash at 152°F or slightly under and leave it there for 90 minutes. (stirring a few times in between) and then boil it for 90 minutes (add the hops after 30) to drive off the DMS (because it's a lager) Done!

Dos Equis is a Vienna Lager. There are less complicated Vienna lagers out there. You will probably brew a good beer but if you like dos equis it's just a Vienna Lager you like. Crafted in Mexico since 1897 to commemorate the arrival of the "XX" century. "Dos Equis" stands for "two X's" in Spanish!

Search the internet for Dos Equis clones. Look below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dos+equ ... +all+grain

Good luck! I hope I didn't offend! :nup: I an sure you will do well however you do it? :thumbs:
Last edited by BobBrews on 30 Apr 2014, 20:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #4 made 12 years ago
BobBrews wrote:Chingon,
It's a traditional all grain recipe, so I don't quite understand the mash temps/timing. Also, it appears my 8.5 gallon kettle might be a bit too small for this batch so I might have to break out my old aluminum 60 quart kettle. I attempted a mini-mash with "double crushed" grain from my LHBS and achieved 70% efficiency, so with my new mill set at the appropriate width I hope to achieve near 75% with a full-volume no sparge method.

Can anyone critique my BIABACUS attempt? I think I just need some help with the mash timing/temps.
You are biting off quite a bit at one time. I hope it goes well for you. Since it is a Lager I expect you have a way (and room) to refrigerate it? Someone else will help you with BIABacus I am no expert at it.

I wish you would brew a simpler beer at the get go. My first BIAB brew was a simple affair, but I still managed to screw it up! BIAB works as advertised so no worries there. Have a good time and don't drink anything until most of the work is done! That is advice from one who knows!

Why are you following that complicated (3V) recipe? :think: I would simplify it (for me). I would do a single infusion mash at 152°F or slightly under and leave it there for 90 minutes. (stirring a few times in between) and then boil it for 90 minutes (add the hops after 30) to drive off the DMS (because it's a lager) Done!

Dos Equis is a Vienna Lager. There are less complicated Vienna lagers out there. You will probably brew a good beer but if you like dos equis it's just a Vienna Lager you like. Crafted in Mexico since 1897 to commemorate the arrival of the "XX" century. "Dos Equis" stands for "two X's" in Spanish!

Search the internet for Dos Equis clones. Look below.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dos+equ ... +all+grain

Good luck! I hope I didn't offend! :nup: I an sure you will do well however you do it? :thumbs:
No offense Bob - I just bought a small freezer chest and have a temp controller which I've used with my heating belt, so I'm not worried about proper lagering temp control.

I've looked all over the web for a solid, scalable clone recipe and this is about as close as I've seen (I think). I might just attempt this clone here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/dos-equ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... me-417333/

I already have a 2L starter of WLP940 Mexican Lager cold crashing, which I plan to step up with another liter in a couple of days. I'll be sure to post up my results!

Any other thoughts on my volume estimation? Should I just use the 60qt Al stockpot or stick with my 8.5 gallon SS kettle?
Last edited by Chingon on 01 May 2014, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.

Post #5 made 12 years ago
Welcome to the forum Chingon :salute:,

Just be aware that these posts may end up being moved to this threadas when the BIAbacus main release file comes out, the administration don't want a whole lot of different files scattered over the board.

One more thing, try to always use the latest BIABacus version. FOr example, some critical terminology has changed since your version. Use 1.3 K for now.

...

What Bob said above is perfect advice but looking at how you have filled out your BIAbacus file, I have a feeling you are thinking this through very well and will probably be fine. Your file is really well done.

We do need to make some changes though....

1. Boil time of 60 minutes in not long enough for all-grain. I am changing it to 90 minutes.

2. No need to write 1.044 on left and right of Section C. it is only needed on the left.

3. It is hard to tell what the EOBV-A (we now call this VAW - Volume of AMbient Wort) is of the original recipe. I think it is more likely to be 21 litres than 19 litres but I am happy with you staying with 19L. It will just make the beer a tiny bit more bitter. Do whatever you feel comfortable with.

4. THe mash schedule is not long enough. In BIAB you are mashing and sparging at the same time so you need to make sure your mash is 90 minutes. To achiever this, I have changed the mash step times. (Note mash-out time in BIAB only needs to be a minute or so).

5. No need to use yeast nutrient in an all-grain brew. Extract, yes. All-grain, no.

6. Chilling TIme - YOu don't know how long that will take until the day so I have removed the 0.5 hours etc.

7. We really don't have a good spot in the BIABacus for lagering details. You would put these in Section I. Lager at lower than 4.4C if you can. Go as close to zero.

So, youa re good to go. Just remember to stir during those times you are applying heat to reach the next step temperature.

Btw, Chingon, did you find the BIABacus easy or hard to use?

:peace:
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 May 2014, 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
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