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LloydieP Kolsch Diacetyl Rest and Cold Crashing Question

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
I have been fermenting a 5 gal batch of LloydieP Krispy Kolsch with WLP 029 Kolsch Yeast for a total of 3 weeks at 16C. Two weeks in a primary bucket and 1 week in a glass carboy. My final gravity was 1.014 when I transferred to the secondary. Since I fermented at a colder temp is the diacetyl rest of 4 days necessary as stated in the recipe report. The recipe report also states cold crashing. How long should I cold crash and does cold crashing effect amount of priming sugar I add before I bottle.

Thanks

Don
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Post #2 made 11 years ago
by Lylo
I think you have passed the opportunity for the diacetyl rest. This is usually done at the end of visible fermentation ( at least where I come from.)
No worries though, carry on and cold crash for 4-10 days (really can't over do this,leave longer if it is not needed).
Go ahead and prime as usual.
AWOL

Post #3 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
The diacetyl rest is not really necessary if you pitch at or under the fermentation temperature. So, that is all good.

The cold crashing is more normally (but not always) done by keggers who may have only used a primary fermentor. You have used a secondary so this will have done the same job as cold crashing. In other words, no need fo ryou to cold crash.

If you did though, as Lylo mentioned, you wouldn't change the priming rate as the yeast is not slamming CO2 into the beer any longer, like it was over the last few weeks. In other words, more CO2 will not go into solution during the cold crash.

:peace:
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Post #4 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
Thanks for the info. I now understand that cold crashing was not necessary since I used a secondary fermanter. Since I cold crashed the kolsch for 7 days at 3C is there enough remaining yeast for the beer to carbonate itself once I bottle it. The folks at my local beer shop said I probably killed off my yeast and should repitch before I bottle. Otherwise I risk ending up with 60 bottles of flat beer. I bought another vial of the yeast I originally used- WLP-029. Is repitching my safest option. After all the effort I would hate to end up with flat beer
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by balli1990
I would think you would be fine without re pitching. The cold would have put the yeast into hibernation rather then kill them off. Once temp rises back up they should become active again.

you only really need one good yeast cell in the bottle to carbonate as it will go to work on the sugar and multiply, I guess it may just take a little longer? So save that expensive liquid yeast for another batch?

Please correct me someone if I'm wrong.

Post #6 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
balli1990 wrote:Please correct me someone if I'm wrong.
Just what I love about this site. It doesn't matter who is posting, we all like to be corrected if we are wrong.

balli, I think you are perfectly right. (The one good yeast cell might be a bit of an exaggeration but - lol). There will be millions of dormant yeast cells (put to sleep as balli said) in your wort. You'd have to use a very fine filter to get rid of them.

Local home brew shop guys can be very inexperienced. Adjust your profile so it shows your location, someone here might know someone close to you with more knowledge.

1. I hate criticising but your home brew shop guys are wrong. Go and ask for a refund on that yeast. How much did that cost?

2. If anything (and this advice is not even right) they could have sold you a sachet of dried lager yeast. In other words, micro/craft breweries often filter their main batch very tightly before bottling. This means that there is no yeast left in the wort. They then use a lager yeast (dried) for priming.

Always ask on this site first!!!! :)
Last edited by PistolPatch on 13 Apr 2014, 17:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
by dkrolak
Thanks again PP. What is your recommendation? Do I re-pitch and then bottle? I don't mind using the yeast I bought. I thought using a different yeast might effect the flavor. Or do I going ahead and bottle. When I do bottle do I bring the beer up to room temp before priming. Once primed what temp and for how long do I condition?

Appreciate your patience.
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
No patience required dk ;),

Just go ahead and bottle it dk. No need to add that other yeast. If you are using a bottling bucket and bulk priming, make sure you mix your priming sugar in really well. That will be easier at a warmer temperature but it doesn't really matter if you add the sugar cold as long as it is mixed thoroughly. Just let it return to 15 C or so and leave them for a few weeks to carbonate.

As for the using a lager yeast that some breweries use for bottling ales, maybe they do it because it flocculates better? I'll have to get some more info on that :think:. The amount they are using and the small amount of priming sugar is not going to have any real dramas especially when used on something like an American pale ale.

:luck: ,
PP
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
by pat86
Just to second the above advice, no need to re-pitch. I cold crash typically for 3-7 days and between 0.5C - 3C, and have yet had to re-pitch yeast for priming. There might come a day when I lager a beer at 0C for several weeks and may want to add some dry yeast since I could be at risk of having dropped out too much yeast before I bottle.

PP: On the note of whether to cold crash when you use a secondary, I'm not really an expert, since I don't rack and just ferment in one primary FV, but when making a Kolsch, I would think that the cold crash may help even if he did rack?

Not just for extra clarity and settling, but wouldn't there be some taste effects as well, since de Germans treat their Alts & Kolsch more akin to lagers at this end of the ferment?

I haven't used the Whitelabs Kolsch but I've got a batch of Alt on the wyeast 2565 kolsch (couldn't get 1007) right now and I'm sure I read that it needs a fair whack of time to floc out clear.

Interested to hear how your batch turns out dkrolak, taste and also clarity. I did do a d-rest of about 6-7 days at 19-20C for mine which was advised by a very solid brewer, I think partially because I was fermenting at the lower end (~14.5C).

Still chilling for a few days but the taste so far is pretty promising when I took gravity readings...

Post #10 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Pat, the cold crash would make a diffeernce but I'm wondering if it is unnecessary work? The clarity would improve a tad but that will get sorted during conditioning and chilling. Only question is would it improve the flavour. I really don't know what the ansert is :scratch:.
PistolPatch wrote:As for the using a lager yeast that some breweries use for bottling ales, maybe they do it because it flocculates better?
That ended up being a pretty good guess :lol:. Last night I checked this with Dan Tunney, one of my favourite pro brewers, now working with Nail and Feral. The better flocculation is the reason. And, even though it is a lager yeast, they also condiiton it at 20 C so there you go.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 25 Apr 2014, 18:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #11 made 11 years ago
by pat86
I couldn't say either PP, I am a bit hesitant to try a full batch without the 3-7 day CC, if it is going to have any additional funk or extra yeast etc.

For Kolsch, even though i was making an alt, I did definitely want to have as clear a beer as possible. Reading between the lines a bit, the Wyeast site says that their Kolsch strain is a terrible floccer - which could be done with time or temp but I am a bit more impatient :drink:

QUOTE from Wyeast: "This strain is a classic, true top cropping yeast strain from a traditional brewery in Cologne, Germany. Beers will exhibit some of the fruity character of an ale, with a clean lager like profile. It produces low or no detectable levels of diacetyl. This yeast may also be used to produce quick-conditioning pseudo-lager beers and ferments well at cold 55-60°F (13-16°C) range. This powdery strain results in yeast that remain in suspension post fermentation. It requires filtration or additional settling time to produce bright beers.

Origin:
Flocculation: low
Attenuation: 73-77%
Temperature Range: 56-70° F (13-21° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 10% ABV"



Great info re. using Lager yeast for conditioning, I remember hearing about brewery secrets and how their yeast (main ferment and conditioning) was a big secret, though I have seen Wyeast smack packs at a couple of micros I'm sure. If the day comes when I do need to pitch some extra yeast for bottling, I will give lager at high temps a try.
Last edited by pat86 on 26 Apr 2014, 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
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