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Post #2 made 11 years ago
by mally
Have a read of this here
Last edited by mally on 13 Jan 2014, 23:09, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Jamile at the brewing network not only suggests boiling with the lid off; he also recomends a 90min boil to ensure the DMS is evaporated off.

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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
listerthrawn wrote:...that's lid off, but I'm struggling to find the reason for this?
A lot of things that the boil does can be achieved with the lid on but a few things things like the eradication of DMS cannot be. That's why mally gave the link above.

But, in that link, it says, "Boil the wort for 90 minutes or longer [to avoid DMS]" but it doesn't say whether to keep the lid on or off so your question is a good one. You do need to keep it off though to get rid of DMS.

As for most other things (not all, though) a boil does, time and vigour are probably more important than whether the lid is on or off. You'll see that if you have a read of the link that Mad_Scientist gave above. Just bear in mind though that there are even more things that go on than are listed there so...

Keep the lid off in future lister ;). If you have problems maintaining a rolling boil with the lid off or fear you are evaporating off too much, float a large stainless steel bowl on top of your wort. Some sporadic info on this in this thread.

:peace:
PP

[On the road atm so I'm going to be very erratic in the time I have available to spend here in the next three or so weeks. Hope the above is enough info for you.]
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Jan 2014, 17:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #6 made 11 years ago
by listerthrawn
Hi all,

Thank you all for the good advice. I will leave it off from now on. My burner will keep a lovely rolling boil even with it off. I will get a bit more wort out of the bag next time as I'll squeeze it a bit harder. First time with the home made bag and I didn't know how good the seams were.

Thanks again,

Chris.

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by bionut
I, sometimes, boil with the lid partially on, so a part of the steam goes out of the kettle. I don't know how DMS affect the beer, so i think that i didn't have any problem with it...
Some say that modern malted malt doesn't produce much DMS, so i wouldn't start boiling for 90 min until i will have a beer with DMS.

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
bionut,
I, sometimes, boil with the lid partially on, so a part of the steam goes out of the kettle. I don't know how DMS affect the beer, so i think that i didn't have any problem with it...
Some say that modern malted malt doesn't produce much DMS, so i wouldn't start boiling for 90 min until i will have a beer with DMS.
Dimethyl Sulfides (DMS)/ Cooked Vegetable Flavors
Like diacetyl in ales, DMS is common in many light lagers and is considered to be part of the character. DMS is produced in the wort during the boil by the reduction of another compound, S-methyl-methionine (SMM), which is itself produced during malting. When a malt is roasted or toasted, the SMM is reduced beforehand and does not manifest as DMS in the wort, which explains why it is more prevalent in pale lagers. In other styles, DMS is a common off-flavor, and can be caused by poor brewing practices or bacterial infections.

DMS is continuously produced in the wort while it is hot and is usually removed by vaporization during the boil. If the wort is cooled slowly these compounds will not be removed from the wort and will dissolve back in. Thus it is important to not completely cover the brewpot during the boil or allow condensate to drip back into the pot from the lid. The wort should also be cooled quickly after the boil, either by immersing in an ice bath or using a wort chiller.
Last edited by BobBrews on 21 Jan 2014, 03:32, edited 2 times in total.
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tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
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Post #10 made 11 years ago
by bionut
I think the author (Palmer?) speaks about lager beer when he tell us that we should chill the wort quickly. BobBrews is a no-chill-man, so i don't think that he have a problem with DMS.

Try to use no chill only with ales, and use a chiller for lagers, just to be sure, and never cover your kettle entirely. Without vaporization your gravity won't rise too much also :D

Post #11 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
no-more-peroni,

I am happy to report that the cube does not cause DMS. Whether a ale or a lager it seems to have no effect on DMS. So if you want to no-chill. You can do either or without worry. A good long boil (90Min) for lagers may be whats needed? I no longer use my copper coil immersion chiller except for comparison tests with no chill. Always leave the cover off when boiling.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Re: Boiling with the lid on or off?

Post #12 made 11 years ago
by no-more-peroni
Thanks Bob. I am only planning on 5 liter brews. I have a 5 liter FV that is a bit like a carboy but quite thick glass. Do you think I could no chill in it if I covered it with clingfilm? Or do I really need to find an appropiate plastic containor.

Sorry for so many questions, but please rest asssured that when I know the answers in the future I will be answering here too. It's a great forum. Thank you.


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Post #13 made 11 years ago
by stm
If only 5L, then just use an ice bath to chill (ie, sink with some water and ice, pot into sink). I wouldn't risk no-chill in anything glass.
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Post #14 made 11 years ago
by bionut
Yes, 5 liter should chill pretty quickly in an ice bath. Or you can use a good lid to cover the pot and slow chill in it. At almost 100 C the glass could shatter and spill hot wort on you.

Post #15 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
no-more-peroni,

Forget no-chill if you don't have a approved container :nup: , Glass will not work! You will bleed to death from the shattered glass! :pray: Below is the description of the product that I use for No-Chill. It's not perfect but it is safe and a toxicologist approved it? So I am not endorsing this product, but I use it?
Winpak® Tight Head Pail is a self-supporting plastic container constructed of high molecular weight, high density polyethylene, and is designed for the secure, dependable shipment and storage of liquid products. Winpak® is cylindrical in shape with spout placement in line with the sidewall for maximum removal of product during dispensing. The unit is also equipped with a swing handle on the top face. Meets UN Packaging Type 1H1 and applicable FDA regulations. Has the standard 70mm liquid tight cap with 3/4" NPT center. Ideal for use with sanitary chemicals, flavorings/concentrates, edible oils, pharmaceutical preps, ag-chem chemicals, NEC photochemical x-ray & electronic diagnostic substances, misc. food & kindred products, powders. Not for fuels or oils. Neck size is 70mm.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... &catid=459
Last edited by BobBrews on 22 Jan 2014, 21:18, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #16 made 11 years ago
by stm
Would there be a risk of that Winpak product cracking as the wort cools and shrinks? Either that or you don't have a proper seal. I think that any HDPE water storage cube or jerrycan would suffice and also allow for shrinkage.
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Post #17 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
stm,

No problems in the last 6 years or so. Never had a problem with cracking. The Winpak can take boiling wort but will have concave sides when cooled. They spring back and work well enough to be continuously used by me. The tight cap makes it air tight. Occasionally I just add yeast to the Winpak and ferment right in there? I use a extra cap I bought for a airlock. I drilled it out and fixed a cheap airlock in the hole. It works but if I have too much wort in the Winpak the krausen clogs the bottom of the airlock? I have one 5 feet away with that problem. I knew it was too full but thought the "Ferm-Cap" would be enough to dampen the krausen. Wrong!

I brewed a beer last September and I am going to ferment it in early May. This will be done for a podcast in June 2014. I will be comparing to hoppy beers side by side. One brewed one day and fermented the next and one brewed in September and fermented along side the one brewed the day before. Same recipe and temps. Just 8 months in between??

There are other containers out there. None are approved for what we do but will suffice in most instances? One opening and air tight are the only real concerns. When the wort cools it will suck in any bacteria thru the openings or cracks. I always worried about opening the cap when I hear the "Whoosh" sound. I thought that any dirt around the opening would suck in some nastiness? No problems! So I guess I was overly concerned about nothing?
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Last edited by BobBrews on 24 Jan 2014, 21:00, edited 2 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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