Hi All,
This will be my first attempt at a BIAB brew and I would really like some help from the community.
I have a pico electrum digital mashing bin with digital temperature control; it has a ±1 C temperature accuracy (apparently) but only has a ‘to brim’ volume of 34 litres (measured by cold water addition) and a stated capacity of 32 litres.I have a temperature controlled fridge (±1 C) that I use to ferment my beer in so like to crash cool.
I want to start off easy so plan to follow the krispy kolsch recipe (and commentary) as closely as possible, however I can already see some problems on the horizon that I really want some help with.
Because I like to keg my beer I really want a final volume of as close to 19L as physically possible. However, because my Kettle is only 34 litres to brim I cannot achieve my 19L easily. How close to the brim do you guys go with your mash volume?
According to the BIABacus by using a hop net and crash cool I can get 18.39L volume into packaging (which I am happy with) but this would leave me with a mash volume of 33.94 which is a bit close. Would it be better to reduce my boil time and therefore have less initial water needed due to reduced evaporation or just have a smaller batch?
Also what is the minimum that I can realistically condition in a corny without bad things happening?
Any help would be really appreciated
Post #2 made 12 years ago
I would plan for about 4 L of water withheld from the mash, after you have doughed in, add what water you can for the mash and use the remaining water by adding before the boil. I would say 3 cm is a safe headspace. See how that looks like on the BIABacus. Did you measure your vessel and entered it in Section B, you will have a good indication of your mash volume, if you do this.
You can carb up a full corny.
You can carb up a full corny.
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
Thanks guys I didn't know about maxi-BIAB. The BIABicus thinks that my kettle is larger than it actually is due to the fact that it is not straight walled. I adjusted the height to make the volume work keeping the diameter the same so as to keep the evaporation correct.
Looking at it in the BIABicus I think that I might hold 7 litres back for sparging so that I can get a full 23 litre brew length. Do the red exclamation marks next to water used in sparge and water held back from mash mean anything? Or are they just a warning in case you leave them filled in by mistake?
Also when it comes to the grain and hop bill I think I will need to make some minor (hopefully) substitutions can you see what you think of these and let me know if you think they will be OK?
The recipe calls for Weyerman Pilsner, will Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner Malt (EBC 3-4) be ok? Or is Weyermann Premiere Pilsner Malt (EBC 3-5) better?
The recipe calls for Belgian Vienna Malt but I can either get Weyermann Vienna Malt (EBC 7-9) or Thomas Fawcett & Crisp Vienna Malt (EBC 8-10) which one should I use? and is it better to stick to one producer?
I also can't get any German Caramel Pils, will Weyermann Cara Bohemian Malt or Thomas Fawcett & Crisp Crystal Malt do? and If so which one is closest to the original recipe?
Yet another issue is the yeast. I cant get any Safale K97 or German Ale Yeast, should I go for Californian Ale Yeast WLP001 and stick to an ale yeast (apparently) similar to the German Ale yeast? Or go for German Lager Yeast WLP830 and stick to the German side of things and end up with a pilsner instead of a kolsch? The fact that I can cool my fermentation gives me the choice but is the added time from lagering and the reduced temperature over complicating things for my first all grain attempt?
I hope that's not too many questions and that I'm not just over complicating things but I really appreciate the help and I am so glad this place is as awesome a resource as it is.
Cheers
Okutu
Looking at it in the BIABicus I think that I might hold 7 litres back for sparging so that I can get a full 23 litre brew length. Do the red exclamation marks next to water used in sparge and water held back from mash mean anything? Or are they just a warning in case you leave them filled in by mistake?
Also when it comes to the grain and hop bill I think I will need to make some minor (hopefully) substitutions can you see what you think of these and let me know if you think they will be OK?
The recipe calls for Weyerman Pilsner, will Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner Malt (EBC 3-4) be ok? Or is Weyermann Premiere Pilsner Malt (EBC 3-5) better?
The recipe calls for Belgian Vienna Malt but I can either get Weyermann Vienna Malt (EBC 7-9) or Thomas Fawcett & Crisp Vienna Malt (EBC 8-10) which one should I use? and is it better to stick to one producer?
I also can't get any German Caramel Pils, will Weyermann Cara Bohemian Malt or Thomas Fawcett & Crisp Crystal Malt do? and If so which one is closest to the original recipe?
Yet another issue is the yeast. I cant get any Safale K97 or German Ale Yeast, should I go for Californian Ale Yeast WLP001 and stick to an ale yeast (apparently) similar to the German Ale yeast? Or go for German Lager Yeast WLP830 and stick to the German side of things and end up with a pilsner instead of a kolsch? The fact that I can cool my fermentation gives me the choice but is the added time from lagering and the reduced temperature over complicating things for my first all grain attempt?
I hope that's not too many questions and that I'm not just over complicating things but I really appreciate the help and I am so glad this place is as awesome a resource as it is.
Cheers
Okutu
Post #4 made 12 years ago
okutu, I hope these two links help you to sort out your "real" capacity of your unit. You have piqued my curiosity as to what a "pico electrum digital mashing bin" looks like. 
PR1.3H with bug fix for Section U and V when Section X (kettle shape adjustment is used);
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 125#p31458
offset;
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 912#p25939
PR1.3H with bug fix for Section U and V when Section X (kettle shape adjustment is used);
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 125#p31458
offset;
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... 912#p25939
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Post #5 made 12 years ago
Thanks for the links Mad, the kettle looks like this:
http://www.pecoservices.co.uk/digital-m ... d-30-p.asp.
The problem with those adjustments is that they are for a concave base rather than the kettle being larger at the top than at the bottom. I am fairly confident with my manual capacity measurement as the maths for calculating the volume of a truncated cone (V = π×H×(B²+T²+(B×T))⁄3 where H = height, B = base radius and T = top radius) back up what I got from filling it with water.
Assuming my kettle size of 34 litres is right do you think holding 7 litres back will work?
http://www.pecoservices.co.uk/digital-m ... d-30-p.asp.
The problem with those adjustments is that they are for a concave base rather than the kettle being larger at the top than at the bottom. I am fairly confident with my manual capacity measurement as the maths for calculating the volume of a truncated cone (V = π×H×(B²+T²+(B×T))⁄3 where H = height, B = base radius and T = top radius) back up what I got from filling it with water.
Assuming my kettle size of 34 litres is right do you think holding 7 litres back will work?
Last edited by okutu on 08 Sep 2013, 04:46, edited 2 times in total.
Post #6 made 12 years ago
The first two sentences of post number three, but hold but seven litres. My guess would be that three could be immediately added at dough in and four used as as preboil addition, not a sparge.
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Post #7 made 12 years ago
My goodness, I've seen it all now. shibolet's square kettle and okutu's truncated one 
.
Welcome to the forum okutu
,
Here's a few notes for you...
Before doing any Maxi-BIAB adjustments, it is a good idea to understand how each adjustment affects time, quality, ingredients and equipment costs. Have a read of these three posts...
Sweet Liquor Shop 1
Sweet Liquor Shop 2
Sweet Liquor Shop 3
Even when you can't fit all the water in your mash, there is very little to be gained in sparging as the most you can sparge with is the liquor retained by the grain. If you can sparge with more than that, you should have added that liquor into the mash already. Remember that when you sparge, there is a very high labour and equipment cost. Play around in Section W of the BIABacus and note the changes to the total grain bill in Section C.
...
In your first post, you mentioned conditioning in a corny. If you keg, you can condition your beers carbonated. So with a 'Krispy Kolsch', if you can crash chill the fermentor for at least three days, then transfer to a keg and carbonate and keep cool then that is perfect. This beer should be conditioned cold not at room temperature. This beer will drink very well straight away anyway.
...
The red exclamation marks are just there to draw your attention to them.
...
Regarding what ingredients to use, this recipe is very robust so you can do a lot of substitutions without worry. For example, you could go either of those pilsner malts you mentioned or even half/half. As for the Vienna malt, same again, any of those will be fine. I'm making this Kolsch in a couple of weeks and I don't even know what 'brand' of Vienna I have here. Also, instead of the pilsner malt, I'll be using an Australian malt called Galaxy which is a very pale ale/pilsner malt. So, there is nothing to get too stressed about.
"Caramel Pils" is also known as Carapils, carafoam or dextrine malt. Nice and confusing eh?
. Weyermann trademark there's as Carapils. Do not use the Bohemian or Crystal malts you mentioned. You cam skip that grain entirely if needs be. It is not a big issue.
As for the yeast, here is what I think. A kolsch should not show too much fruit character, if any at all so, instead of spending money on an expensive liquid yeast, I would go for Safale US-05 yeast. This will give you no fruitiness at all. Cool your wort to 15 C and then pitch this yeast. Keep the temperature actively down during the first week i.e. keep it at 15 or 16 C. In the second week, you can let it wander up to whatever it wants to but don't exceed 22 C.
Just checked the Kolsch recipe in Brewing Classic Styles and US-05 is listed as a possible yeast with the proviso that it will give you a clean beer but it won't really be a Kolsch. I think that is fine. (Liquid yeasts suggested are Whit Labs WLP029 or Wyeast 2565). Honestly, I'd stick to the US-05 - great beer, no mucking around and no spending a fortune on one yeast for one brew.
PP
.Welcome to the forum okutu
,Here's a few notes for you...
Before doing any Maxi-BIAB adjustments, it is a good idea to understand how each adjustment affects time, quality, ingredients and equipment costs. Have a read of these three posts...
Sweet Liquor Shop 1
Sweet Liquor Shop 2
Sweet Liquor Shop 3
Even when you can't fit all the water in your mash, there is very little to be gained in sparging as the most you can sparge with is the liquor retained by the grain. If you can sparge with more than that, you should have added that liquor into the mash already. Remember that when you sparge, there is a very high labour and equipment cost. Play around in Section W of the BIABacus and note the changes to the total grain bill in Section C.
...
In your first post, you mentioned conditioning in a corny. If you keg, you can condition your beers carbonated. So with a 'Krispy Kolsch', if you can crash chill the fermentor for at least three days, then transfer to a keg and carbonate and keep cool then that is perfect. This beer should be conditioned cold not at room temperature. This beer will drink very well straight away anyway.
...
The red exclamation marks are just there to draw your attention to them.
...
Regarding what ingredients to use, this recipe is very robust so you can do a lot of substitutions without worry. For example, you could go either of those pilsner malts you mentioned or even half/half. As for the Vienna malt, same again, any of those will be fine. I'm making this Kolsch in a couple of weeks and I don't even know what 'brand' of Vienna I have here. Also, instead of the pilsner malt, I'll be using an Australian malt called Galaxy which is a very pale ale/pilsner malt. So, there is nothing to get too stressed about.
"Caramel Pils" is also known as Carapils, carafoam or dextrine malt. Nice and confusing eh?
. Weyermann trademark there's as Carapils. Do not use the Bohemian or Crystal malts you mentioned. You cam skip that grain entirely if needs be. It is not a big issue.As for the yeast, here is what I think. A kolsch should not show too much fruit character, if any at all so, instead of spending money on an expensive liquid yeast, I would go for Safale US-05 yeast. This will give you no fruitiness at all. Cool your wort to 15 C and then pitch this yeast. Keep the temperature actively down during the first week i.e. keep it at 15 or 16 C. In the second week, you can let it wander up to whatever it wants to but don't exceed 22 C.
Just checked the Kolsch recipe in Brewing Classic Styles and US-05 is listed as a possible yeast with the proviso that it will give you a clean beer but it won't really be a Kolsch. I think that is fine. (Liquid yeasts suggested are Whit Labs WLP029 or Wyeast 2565). Honestly, I'd stick to the US-05 - great beer, no mucking around and no spending a fortune on one yeast for one brew.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Sep 2013, 15:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #8 made 12 years ago
Thanks PP thats really helpful, the sparge will only really be a dunk in a bucket so I don't think the cost and labour will be hugely increased.
Yeah I alwayps corney condition but was more wondering if I didn't do a maxi then would it be ok to condition one that is partially full, however I'm sure it would be fine as long as i purge all the air out with co2.
As for ingredients you are a lifesaver, I could get carapils and just didn't know it was the same thing o_O.
As for the yeast I was actually really looking forward to making my first starter but if you think us05 is a better bet then it will have to wait and I will use that instead, do you normally pitch one pack or two?
Cheers
Okutu
Yeah I alwayps corney condition but was more wondering if I didn't do a maxi then would it be ok to condition one that is partially full, however I'm sure it would be fine as long as i purge all the air out with co2.
As for ingredients you are a lifesaver, I could get carapils and just didn't know it was the same thing o_O.
As for the yeast I was actually really looking forward to making my first starter but if you think us05 is a better bet then it will have to wait and I will use that instead, do you normally pitch one pack or two?
Cheers
Okutu
Post #9 made 12 years ago
No probs okutu ,
Conditioning in the corny should be fine if you do as you say. As for grain names, they are often totally bewildering
.
If you are looking forward to making a starter and you are okay with the cost of the liquid yeast then go for it for sure. It will allow you to use a true kolsch yeast. You could even wash some of the yeast cake from this batch and use some of the yeast again in about a month or so?
If you decide to go with dry, one packet is fine for this volume into fermentor.
PP
,Conditioning in the corny should be fine if you do as you say. As for grain names, they are often totally bewildering
.If you are looking forward to making a starter and you are okay with the cost of the liquid yeast then go for it for sure. It will allow you to use a true kolsch yeast. You could even wash some of the yeast cake from this batch and use some of the yeast again in about a month or so?
If you decide to go with dry, one packet is fine for this volume into fermentor.
PP
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