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2nd biab ..volumes ...thinking out loud

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by uk brewer
:think:

i did no 1 biab and i came out with nearly 7 gallons of wort,

it was a bit hit and miss as i no chilled into a cube which held more than advertised...
i started with 33L, and added 6 litres from flushing the bag

so next brew.... im thinking of having

1 cube full of water ...[which is what i want to end with]

1 gallon to allow for the boil
1 gallon to allow for grain absorption

would this work out about right... :think:

sorry about the mix of gallons and litres... :blush:

im only thinking this through like ya do.. :scratch:

Post #2 made 12 years ago
by 2trout
If you can provide us with some basic info about your equipment, all volumes can be worked out with the BIABacus.

If you post a recipe, the actual volume of beer you want to put into your cube, the interior diameter and height of your kettle; all volumes can be accurately estimated. Post the above info into this thread.http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=286
Last edited by 2trout on 16 Jan 2013, 03:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Thinking out loud is good :thumbs:.

It's always great to see a brewer thinking about what's actually happening in a brew instead of blindly following numbers (which are usually wrong anyway :)). 2trout's advice above is great. Posting a recipe there will keep you safe and the process will always teach you something about the brewing process.

What affects volumes?

So far your thinking is fine ukb but quite a few other factors come into play and inter-relate in this area. For example, let's say you usually do brews with an original gravity of 1.050 but on your next brew, you plan to do a brew of 1.060. Here's what will happen...

1. Your grain bill will increase.
2. Your grain bill will increase more than you think because, with any all-grain method, the bigger the beeer, the lower the 'Efficiency into Kettle (EIK)'.
3. Because the grain bill is bigger now, you'll lose more volume of water there*.
4. Your 'Kettle to Fermentor Loss (KFL)' (kettle trub) increases due to the higher grain bill and a few other things.

So, we have a whole lot of little things that go on.

Have a play around with this...

I've attached a file here that has nearly all of the BIABacus blanked out so as you can have a bit of a play around and see how volumes change when you alter something like OG, Boil Time or Volume into Fermentor (or Cube).

In this file, there's only 5 numbers you can alter. Most will make sense except 'Kettle Diameter'. This is used to guestimate evaporation until a brewer has done enough brews to over-ride this guess if necessary. You can type in your kettle diameter there if you like. (Put the height in as well while you're there and some warnings will pop up if your volumes are too much for your kettle).

I've also left in the 'Your Efficiencies' section (down towards the bottom right) so as you can see how the various efficiencies change with the OG. I've also left a few fields in there (Grams and Pounds) as this will show you how the grain bill alters when you change certain numbers.

Bear in mind, the formulas used in this file are designed to suit a new all-grain brewer. The main file has many ways of adjusting these defaults.

Have a beer and a play with it ;)
PP

PS Also look at the Brewing Terminology Chart here

* In BIAB the average amount of water retained by the grain is around 0.6 litres per kilo. (Out of time so can't give you the US or UK equivalent).
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Jan 2013, 07:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #4 made 12 years ago
by uk brewer
excellent stuff i will have a look,

i couldnt wait to get biab no1 under way, so thought i would do it ,then adapt the next brews as i went along.... :thumbs:

i still cant wait... to see and smell brew no 2 ..... :peace:

Post #5 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Not one download in 11 hours and that post/file took me an hour and a half to write :angry:.

It's actually not a worry ;)...
uk brewer wrote:I couldn't wait to get biab no 1 under way, so thought i would do it ,then adapt the next brews as i went along.... :thumbs:
That's a great attitude/approach ukb.

The right attitude/approach to brewing (and there are many) is essential. Like religion, any of them can be used really well or very badly. Kahlil Gibran in, 'The Prophet,' puts this most beautifully...
Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul. If either your sails or your rudder be broken, you can but toss and drift, or else be held at a standstill in mid-seas. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction.
Can anyone put it better than that?

A lot of stuff in brewing can be measured and estimated fairly well. It's important to know which numbers are reliable and have value. I'd think of them as being the hull of your boat. Bear in mind, it will leak a bit :). (Think volumes and gravties).

A lot of stuff in brewing can't be measured very well such as hop characteristics (there's much more though). The best we can hope for is a rudder that will get us heading in the general direction of our goals.

At a first glance, it mightn't look like it, but, The BIABacus has the best hull and rudder around, by far. (Hopefully one day, we'll find someone to paint it well for us :)). A beginner can sail it after half an hour and the most experienced brewer will be able to sail it faster than anything else.

A perfect instruction manual, to suit all sailors, is impossible though. The best we can hope for is the highest diligence possible and a help line (this forum).

The BIABacus, the help being written behind the scenes and this forum, as far as I can see has two main goals...

1. Help new sailors get under way as fast as possible.
2. Enable advanced sailors to explore and map seas we haven't navigated before.

There's only one ultimate goal though and that is to help everyone enjoy the trip to the seas, shorelines and harbours they enjoy most. Skippers are most likely to enjoy the trip/challenge. Some passengers also know how to do this.

Some passengers get sea-sick if there's too much turbulence. There's nothing wrong with that. There's lots of interesting stuff close to the shoreline.

The only poor passenger on a boat is the one who misses the beauty of the current current because they think there'll be something even more exciting on the next tack.

So, that's the spiritual side of brewing done for me for today. Have fun with it!

:lol:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Jan 2013, 20:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #6 made 12 years ago
by GuingesRock
F’ing good post PP. Brilliant and full of heart! My computer crashed at the weekend and I had to restore to factory. I lost my Beersmith in the process (I see you did lots of work on the development of Beersmith also) so I’m hopping on your boat, skipper, if I may, the next time I design a beer. I think it will be a Guinness attempt.

Thanks for all your hard work you are doing for us On BIABacus, and everyone else who is working on it too.
Guinges

Post #7 made 12 years ago
by GuingesRock
I had a look at BIABacus a couple of times. Never sure if I have the right version for what I need, or the latest version.

Would it be an idea to have a BIABacus banner on the home page (similar to Cheesestradamus) with links to the latest versions? BIABacus seems to be an integral part of this site.

Thanks
Guinges

Post #8 made 12 years ago
by PistolPatch
Did I write all that last night? :lol: (Can't beat old Kahlil ;)). Hope it wasn't too off-topic for you ukb :dunno:.

Computers will drive you to drink GR. Similiar thing happened to me this week. Anyway, back on-topic...

Only one more version of the Pre-release BIABacus has been posted. You can find that version (PR 1.1 E) and a few notes in this post.

I think the aim is to re-write the temporary help to suit that new lay-out over the weekend. That lay-out should be the final lay-out. (There's a couple of fields we want to re-write in Section Y of that version and a couple of other minor things but that's it.)

I'd use PR 1.1 E until the final PR version gets done on the weekend.

Thanks for your posts GR. Much appreciated :salute:,
PP

P.S. Don't want to take ukb's thread off-topic but good idea on the ad. Will pass it on for sure.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Jan 2013, 19:33, edited 2 times in total.
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