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Post #551 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Those Northern Brewer bags looked very coarse to me. You really want material that has about 40 threads per cm. Unfortuantely, you need a super strong magnifying glass to check this out :sad:.
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Post #552 made 14 years ago
by kartoffel
I don't have the bag infront of me, but I can tell you, just from memory, that the bag had no where near 40TPC. The hot wort in the kettle was reminicent of Chinese egg drop soup for a while.

On a better note. Fermentation has started the room temperature where the carboy is is about 58 so I'm guessing it's right around 60-62. I'll give it a week or two and then put it somewhere warmer to finish off. Most of the sediment has dropped out but the convection from fermentation keeps a lot in suspention. I'll just cold crash to my bottling bucket which should be fine.

Post #553 made 14 years ago
by kartoffel
Well primary fermentation is done. my fermometer tells me it was right about 60F in my basement which is good for the Munic yeast I used. I got a lot more trub then I'm used to getting but it was about what was predicted any way. I just ploped it in a secondary which I don't usually do for a hefe, but I'm going to try making a sour mash with 2 pounds of grain and see if I can blend it to get a faux berlinerweiss.

Post #554 made 14 years ago
by wherestheyeast
Greetings all! I'm getting ready to try my first BIAB! I'm super excited about giving it a go, but I'm getting a bit overwhelmed by the calculations (I was good at math in school -- really!).

Anyway, here is the recipe that my local shop put together for me:

OVERVIEW

Style: IPA
Name: LHBS
Yeast: WL001
Fermentation Temperature: 64F (64 °F = 17.8 °C)
Original Gravity: 1.060
Total IBU's: 67
Colour (EBC):
Efficiency at End of Boil:
Mash Length (mins): 60
Boil Length (mins): 60
Your Vessel Type (Pot/Keggle/Urn): Pot, 10.6 gallon (10.6 gal = 40.1 L), Diameter: 15.125 inches (15.1 in = 38.4 cm), Height: 13.5 inches (13.5 in = 34.3 cm)
Source/Credits: LHBS
Notes/Instructions/Comments: Mash @ 154 F (154 °F = 67.8 °C) for 60 minutes

Volumes etc.

Your Vessel Volume (L or gal): 10.5 gallon (10.5 gal = 39.7 L)
Your Vessel Diameter (cm or in): 15.125 in (15.1 in = 38.4 cm)
Water Required (L or gal):
Mash Temperature (C or F): 154 F (154 °F = 67.8 °C)
Volume at End of Boil (L or gal):
Volume into Fermenter (L or gal):
Brew Length (L or gal): 2.5 gal (2.5 gal = 9.46 L)
Total Grain Bill (g or oz): 104 oz (104 oz = 2.94 kg)

Grains - Colours - Percentages and/or Weight (g or oz)

Grain 1: Pale Malt, 89.6 oz (89.6 oz = 2.54 kg)
Grain 2: Crystal 60L (60 L = 15.9 gal), 9.6 oz (9.6 oz = 272 g)
Grain 3: Carafoam, 4.8 oz (4.8 oz = 136 g)
etc

Hops - AA% - IBUs - Weight (g or oz) at Minutes

Hop 1: Simcoe - 13.1% - .5 oz (0.5 oz = 14.1 g) @ 60 minutes
Hop 2: Amarillo - 9.3% - .5 oz (0.5 oz = 14.1 g) @ 20 min
Hop 3: Amarillo - 9.3% - .5 oz (0.5 oz = 14.1 g) @ 10 min
Hop 4: Amarillo - 9.3% - .5 oz (0.5 oz = 14.1 g) @ 0
etc

Adjuncts/Minerals/Finings etc

Adjunct:
Mineral: Gypsum 1 oz (1 oz = 28.3 g) in the Mash
Finings: 1 tsp Irish Moss @ 10 min

-----------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance!

Post #555 made 14 years ago
by Yeasty
Hi wherestheyeast.

Can you read an excel file ? if so I'll put the recipe onto the calculator for you. If not i can still scale it to your equipment and post a report sheet. We will have to make some assumtions as its your first Biab you will not have your boil off rate and efficiency but we can make good guesses at those.

Yeasty
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Post #556 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Can't say much to the numbers (math is hard....) but I can tell you that looks like a tasty recipe. I use almost the same grain bill for all of my APA's (I use carapils instead of carafoam), and Amarillo hops are yummy (right BB?)

---Todd
WWBBD?
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Post #557 made 14 years ago
by wherestheyeast
Hey Yeasty -- yeah, I can look at an excel file. I've been trying to play with "THE CALCULATOR" xls, but I have a hard time with metric (damn U.S. public schools!).

Thanks, Todd, for the comments on the recipe! I don't think I've ever had a beer with amarillo hops.

Thanks gents!

Post #560 made 14 years ago
by Yeasty
Here ya go WTYeast,

Couple of points:

I've set the efficiency to 75% to reflect the OG of 1.060. (The higher your gravity the lower your efficiency) I don't think you'll notice much on such a strong beer if its a point either way. If you go over you can always dilute your wort back down to 1.060.

The IBU's don't match the recipe. There are different ways to calculate IBU's but the calculator is pretty much as good as it gets so I'd say 55 it is, still pretty hoppy :shock:

I've set the brew length so that the grain bill required matchs your recipe grain bill, total mash volume is 5.86gal which is way inside your 10gal max :thumbs:

There is an option on this version of the calculator to change the units from imperial to metric. Be careful if you use this function as it doesn't change the brew length amount in cell B5, you have to do that manually.

Remember to keep good records, download the checklist Here and record your volumes. As you progress you will be able to make adjustments to dial in your volumes more accurately.

:luck:

Yeasty
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Last edited by Yeasty on 15 May 2012, 04:48, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #561 made 14 years ago
by wherestheyeast
Yeasty,

Thanks again for the help/work on the calculator & spreadsheet! I brewed last night and was a bit intimidated by the checklist -- I didn't strictly follow the steps, but in the end it helped tremendously to keep me on track. I was amazed at how the volumes you provided on the calculator matched up almost exactly! I did have an issue with trying to calculate strike temperature. I heated to 165 F and mash temp (after stirring/mixing a bit) was 158 F (I was shooting for 154 F). Temp seemed to remain near 157 F for the first 25 minutes, and dropped to 148 F by end of 60 minute mash. So, I need to adjust the strike temp down a bit and try to insulate my kettle next time.

I hit gravity numbers +/- 2 points on pre-boil & post-boil numbers. I did squeeze the crap out of the bag post-boil though.

All-in-all I was extremely happy with the process & the entire brew-day took 4hrs 15 minutes (including clean-up)!

Thanks again!

Post #562 made 14 years ago
by Yeasty
Hi wherestheyeast

:thumbs: :thumbs: :clap: Well done on your first biab, the credit for the Calculator goes to Biabrewer :salute: Keep your records but don't change anything on the calculator until you are at least to Biab#5.

As to strike temp, there are a few online calculators on the net, most are ok. I normally aim 2-3* high depending on time of year. One tip is to keep back a couple of litres of water. If your high top up with cold water if your low top up with hot. If your bob on add it when you pull the bag.

Well done again, roll on #2 :argh:

Yeasty

PS 4hrs 15min is impressive :shock:
Last edited by Yeasty on 17 May 2012, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #563 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Congratulations wherestheyeast and good on you Yeasty :clap:.

The next version of The Calculator will have a strike water temp calculation in it wty but you need to be careful with these as some kettle/burner set-ups radiate more heat when turned off than others. In other words, your mash can continue to rise for a few minutes. With full-volume brewing like BIAB, I think it's safe/easy to be on the low side as it is easier to apply heat than remove it.

Let us know how it all ends up tasting wty.

:peace:
PP
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Post #564 made 14 years ago
by rens
HI All, I'm setting up to brew a batch of Wit this weekend using the recipe from the Austin Homebrew Store which is much discussed at http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/austin- ... er-135187/ although without enough specificity about volumes, alas.

I've set it up in the calculator, attached, I'd appreciate it if someone had a look over this to check my numbers.

I've left my efficiency at 75 although I know people get higher; I think it may be my hard london water, as I'm quite sure about the mash temp. I will be mashing at 66 (68 strike) for 90 minutes, then gradually increase the temp to 77 and pull & drain for mash out. i dont want to start playing with the water on this one as its my first Wit ( to brew; I do like drinking them for a change from bitter!)

One concern I have is that the recipe discussion calls for a 30 minute boil. This seems hazardous to me. What do you guys think?
I was going to go for a 60 minute boil as a compromise. I've set the calculator that way.

Im using WLP400 and expect to leave it in primary for three weeks, then straight into the corny and wash'n'save the yeast bed.
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Post #565 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Great job rens!

I've only made two changes. On the 'Hop Bill' sheet, I've changed E8 to 20.8 as that is 5.5 gallons end of boil volume. (We don't really know if that is correct as the original recipe only says "Batch = 5.5 gals). That should be close enough.

The other thing I did was move your peel and seed to the grains page as I think it is easier to scale them there by weight. Their weight is so small it won't really affect the grain bill.

Probably your next step in brewing will to be adjusting your pH. THat should up your efficiencies a bit.

Anyway, well done again :salute:
AHB Wit BIAB Calculator 20120523 PP.xlsx
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 23 May 2012, 19:06, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #566 made 14 years ago
by rens
Thanks, Will revert with measured values after the brewday. I will see about measuring the mash PH and hardness ahead of time too so I have a data point there.

A point of process: to get a baseline is it best practice to measure the hardness ( I have a fish tank kit) before the campden addition or after?

Post #567 made 14 years ago
by nu_brew
Ok I'm a few brews in: a couple of cracks at NRB's Ammarillio Ale - dinking batch 1 now :yum: Delicious even though I got the hop additions wrong :headhit: !
Anyway second batch (correct hop additions) is conditioning and some Krispy Kolsch in the fermenters.

So I've bought Brewing Classic Styles and I'm not sure how to convert the recipes using the calculator, I'm guessing once I have done one the rest will be easy because they are all for a set batch size?

Little help :pray: ?


Cheers
Josh
"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer."
- Henry Lawson

Post #568 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Good score on buying the book nb :thumbs:

They are really easy to convert as well. Just type in all the weights of grains and hops as they are on the Grain Bill and Hop Bill page. After that you only have to do two things. On the hop bill sheet, change cell E8 to 22.7 L as that's the end of boil volume at ambient of all the recipes. Finally just change the OG on sheet 1 to that of the recipe.

Feel free to PM me a sheet if you need it checked. (I think I found one error or two typos in the book but that's about it.)

:peace:
PP
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Post #570 made 14 years ago
by Yeasty
PistolPatch wrote:Good score on buying the book nb :thumbs:

They are really easy to convert as well. Just type in all the weights of grains and hops as they are on the Grain Bill and Hop Bill page. After that you only have to do two things. On the hop bill sheet, change cell E8 to 22.7 L as that's the end of boil volume at ambient of all the recipes. Finally just change the OG on sheet 1 to that of the recipe.

Feel free to PM me a sheet if you need it checked. (I think I found one error or two typos in the book but that's about it.)

:peace:
PP
RE Hop Bill: (My thinking when using BCS)

When I convert from BCS I use the IBU figures given for the hop bill and input them in the IBU column ignoring the weights. If you use the weights you will see that the calculator doesn't match the book. This is because in the book the IBU's are calculated by the Rager formula where as the Calc uses Tinseth. As an example my adapted Yankee Doodle Dandy recipe is an adaption of BCS APA. If I had used the weights it would have calculated 29.5 IBU's and the brew would have been under hopped. (or would it :think: what do you think PP, might start another thread to discuss further)

As PP said Nu_brew post your conversion and we'll check it over.

:thumbs:

Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 24 May 2012, 16:15, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #571 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Yeah, that's it mate :peace:.

Once you've entered the above, you just change brew length, efficiency and evaporation to scale it to your own equipment.

;)

[EDIT: Just saw your post Yeasty. Give me a minute...]
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Post #572 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Yeasty...

When IBU numbers are given with a recipe, they really can't be relied on unless you know the formula used and in most cases, also own the program where the recipe was calculated.

Have a look at the picture in this post. You'll see the same recipes giving totally different IBU estimations.

The Tinseth formula is regarded as the best formula to use for all-grain but even this is just a ball-park number. Furthermore, even with Tinseth, there are discrepancies from program to program and, in some cases, actual errors.

What this all means is that IBU's cannot be relied upon for scaling from one program to another. If you know the programs and the problems with some of them you can do a bit of detective work and take a good guess but that's about it.

What you really want when scaling hops is the end of boil volume at ambient temperature of the original recipe as well as the hop weights, AA% and time of additions. This is the best quality information from which to scale from.

Once the new calculator is up here on the site, I'm going to try and see if I can write a "Recipe Detective" which might be able to make some sense of some obscure recipes. Mind you, there are many recipes out there that simply have such poor information accompanying them that they actually are impossible to scale.

So, avoid working off IBU's if at all possible.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 May 2012, 16:49, edited 9 times in total.
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Post #573 made 14 years ago
by nu_brew
Ok Guys, I've had a crack at the ALT.BEER.RECIPE from BCS and hit wall at the hops!

So if I put the hop weight in grams (Magnum AA%13 17 grams @60 min) in The Calculator I get 23.9 IBU on the scaled recipe, but BCS says 32 :scratch:

Also I haven't changed any of the evap/buffer/efficiency figures etc. 'cause I haven't been keeping great records/measurements but I found last time with these settings I filled my 17L cube without much waste in the kettle, I might dial it down a little bit after a few more brews.

Edit: What I'm getting at is: Am I aiming to scale the hops in relation to the recipe or am I scaling the hops in regards to IBUS :dunno:
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Last edited by nu_brew on 24 May 2012, 17:39, edited 10 times in total.
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Post #574 made 14 years ago
by nu_brew
Oh do you want the original recipe too?

Also original recipe is for a 60 boil but I will do 90mins, do I need to adjust for this? :scratch:
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Post #575 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
What you did above was almost right. The only error was on the grain bill side where you had typed in both percent and weights. Just use weights where possible. Have fixed this in the file below.
nu_brew wrote:What I'm getting at is: Am I aiming to scale the hops in relation to the recipe or am I scaling the hops in regards to IBUS :dunno:
Definitely work on weights not on IBU's. Have a read of post #579 I wrote to Yeasty above. This will explain why.

As for boil time, just change it to 90 unless you are confident in a 60 minute boil. (The adjustments will all occurr automatically.)

Let me know if you have any questions on post #579.

;)
PP
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 May 2012, 18:10, edited 9 times in total.
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