Hi, I'm just coming up to the stage where I need to bottle my first BIAB attempt. It's an American Pale Ale that I've dropped down to 3.5˚C for 3 days to finish conditioning (total 16 days 2 stage fermentation) before I go to bottling phase. I'm a bit confused about how much dextrose/corn sugar to add. I'm racking the beer into a bottling tub to which I will add the dextrose. On the howtobrew website it uses a graph that changes the amount of dextrose to add depending on the temperature of the beer. Would anyone please be able to explain why that has an effect on how much sugar you would need to add? This is the link: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter11-4.html
Any help, suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan
Post #2 made 13 years ago
Dan, bottle conditioning is a process of adding sugar to a finished beer to produce CO2 in a sealed container (bottle) which carbonates the beer. The level of carbonation depends on the amount of sugar you add to produce a secondary fermentation AND the amount of CO2 that was already present in the beer prior to bottling. Meaning that you get different levels of carbonation in the beer, even if you add the same amount of sugar, if the amount of CO2 in the beer is different. Here's where temp of the beer matters...The solubility of CO2 in beer DECREASES as you INCREASE the temperature of the beer (meaning higher temps "squeezes" the CO2 out of the beer). So for a given carbonation level, you'll need to increase the amount of sugar for higher temperatures, or alternatively, decrease the amount of sugar for decreasing temperatures.
In your case you've fermented at some temperature then dropped the temperature to clarify it. I have always interpreted the graph and assumed that the highest temperature of the beer at the end of fermentation is the temp which you should use in calculating sugar dosages. In your case, whatever the temp was before chilling to 3.5C.
Hope that helps.
In your case you've fermented at some temperature then dropped the temperature to clarify it. I have always interpreted the graph and assumed that the highest temperature of the beer at the end of fermentation is the temp which you should use in calculating sugar dosages. In your case, whatever the temp was before chilling to 3.5C.
Hope that helps.
Post #3 made 13 years ago
Good Day, The chart show the sugar needed for final carbonation. Example" if SERVING temperature is near freezing, less sugar is needed to create the Volume of Co2 desired.
Cold beer holds Carbonation much better than warm beer.
In reality, a APA, PA and Lagers are served cold, Ales, Porters, and Stouts are served warmer.
Using the amount of sugar that Porters need in a Pale Lager can cause major Gushers.
The amount of sugar needed is a personal decision, and J.Palmer has the good Starting Amount.
Good Luck!
Cold beer holds Carbonation much better than warm beer.
In reality, a APA, PA and Lagers are served cold, Ales, Porters, and Stouts are served warmer.
Using the amount of sugar that Porters need in a Pale Lager can cause major Gushers.
The amount of sugar needed is a personal decision, and J.Palmer has the good Starting Amount.
Good Luck!
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Post #4 made 13 years ago
froth,
The thing to remember first is to have the full 5 gallons or 19 liters. The problem that I had when I started is that the amount of beer varied and that caused my priming sugar calculations off! If your short beer than add some boiled and cooled water to the priming bucket making sure of your sanitation!
The temperature is not important! Room temperature is OK. Remember you want to restart the yeast to create c02 so it must be within the yeasts limits. I use 5 oz. or 142 grams of corn sugar. Some beers need slightly more or less depending on the style. I would under prime if I am not sure? Bottle bombs are dangerous.
One other thing. Make sure your beer is finished fermenting! If you have some sugar left that was not consumed by your yeast because the yeast got stuck or cold shocked then the addition of priming sugar may restart the dormant sugar. The result of both sugars fermenting will cause over carbonation and death! OK, Maybe not death but flying glass in the eye is bad!
Here is a link for priming sugar calculations. http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
The thing to remember first is to have the full 5 gallons or 19 liters. The problem that I had when I started is that the amount of beer varied and that caused my priming sugar calculations off! If your short beer than add some boiled and cooled water to the priming bucket making sure of your sanitation!
The temperature is not important! Room temperature is OK. Remember you want to restart the yeast to create c02 so it must be within the yeasts limits. I use 5 oz. or 142 grams of corn sugar. Some beers need slightly more or less depending on the style. I would under prime if I am not sure? Bottle bombs are dangerous.
One other thing. Make sure your beer is finished fermenting! If you have some sugar left that was not consumed by your yeast because the yeast got stuck or cold shocked then the addition of priming sugar may restart the dormant sugar. The result of both sugars fermenting will cause over carbonation and death! OK, Maybe not death but flying glass in the eye is bad!
Here is a link for priming sugar calculations. http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/
Last edited by BobBrews on 30 Apr 2012, 20:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #5 made 13 years ago
Froth,
Bob mentioned this, and Id say google carbonation calculator, I use this one herehttp://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipa ... 318544#tag. It works well for me.
Trout
Bob mentioned this, and Id say google carbonation calculator, I use this one herehttp://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipa ... 318544#tag. It works well for me.
Trout
Last edited by 2trout on 30 Apr 2012, 20:28, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #6 made 13 years ago
The temperature reference in the nomograph is for the temperature of the beer in the fermenter, NOT the serving temperature. He's talked about this numerous times on the Brewing Network and I'm sure elsewhere.joshua wrote:Good Day, The chart show the sugar needed for final carbonation. Example" if SERVING temperature is near freezing, less sugar is needed to create the Volume of Co2 desired.
You're talking about 10 maybe 20F difference in serving temps for these. That's certainly not going to cause "major" gushers for properly carbonated beers. And if your logic were true, what would happen to the bottle at conditioning temps (~70F)?joshua wrote:Using the amount of sugar that Porters need in a Pale Lager can cause major Gushers.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 30 Apr 2012, 21:13, edited 3 times in total.
Post #7 made 13 years ago
Thanks for all the responses. It's good to have some different opinions. If I'm chilling for clarity should I then bring it back to original temperature to add my primer before bottling, hence measure based off the original fermentaton temperature?
Post #8 made 13 years ago
You'll have to warm it up eventually for conditioning (it won't ferment at that low of temperature). So warming it before bottling should be fine. If it were me doing it, I'd put the chilled carboy in the place where you want to bottle the night before. So anything that is disturbed has a chance to settle while its still cold.thefrothologist wrote:Thanks for all the responses. It's good to have some different opinions. If I'm chilling for clarity should I then bring it back to original temperature to add my primer before bottling, hence measure based off the original fermentaton temperature?
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 30 Apr 2012, 22:54, edited 3 times in total.
Post #9 made 13 years ago
Good question Dan,
BrickBrewHaus has nailed the answer. Your fermented beer is saturated with CO2 due to it bubbling through the beer throughout fermentation. Cold liquid can hold more CO2 in solution than warm liquid. There's a big difference and some priming calculators even in the best known software, don't allow for this.
As you are priming very cold (3.5C) your beer is already holding a lot of CO2. Priming those bottles with the same rate as you would use in bottles at 18C could lead to some dangerous results*. I haven't checked the links above but both of them seem to account for temperature so that's great.
The next calculator we'll see on this site will have priming sugar amounts thanks to a nice formula that Sig wrote.
PP
* I do wonder though, if you run your fermentation through at 18C and then leave it for three or four days before dropping it down to say 3.5C, would there still be the same amount of CO2 as if you dropped it straight down at the "immediate" end of fermentation? In other words,during that 3 or 4 day lag, would a lot of the CO2 be driven off?
BrickBrewHaus has nailed the answer. Your fermented beer is saturated with CO2 due to it bubbling through the beer throughout fermentation. Cold liquid can hold more CO2 in solution than warm liquid. There's a big difference and some priming calculators even in the best known software, don't allow for this.
As you are priming very cold (3.5C) your beer is already holding a lot of CO2. Priming those bottles with the same rate as you would use in bottles at 18C could lead to some dangerous results*. I haven't checked the links above but both of them seem to account for temperature so that's great.
The next calculator we'll see on this site will have priming sugar amounts thanks to a nice formula that Sig wrote.
PP
* I do wonder though, if you run your fermentation through at 18C and then leave it for three or four days before dropping it down to say 3.5C, would there still be the same amount of CO2 as if you dropped it straight down at the "immediate" end of fermentation? In other words,during that 3 or 4 day lag, would a lot of the CO2 be driven off?
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
Warning...speculation herePistolPatch wrote:* I do wonder though, if you run your fermentation through at 18C and then leave it for three or four days before dropping it down to say 3.5C, would there still be the same amount of CO2 as if you dropped it straight down at the "immediate" end of fermentation? In other words,during that 3 or 4 day lag, would a lot of the CO2 be driven off?
I suspect that CO2 is NOT driven off if kept at any temperature, warm or cold, in a 3 or 4 day period. Gas in a liquid solution comes to equilibrium based on the solubility of the liquid (depends on the temperature) and amount of that gas in the surrounding atmosphere. If equilibrium is reached for a particular temperature, then the amount of dissolved CO2 should not change (unless given a good reason, like shaking, etc.).
What I'm more curious about is how the amount of dissolved CO2 changes when the capacity for CO2 is increased (i.e., you chill the beer and increase the ability for the beer to hold CO2). Part of me thinks that it just becomes slightly less than completely saturated. But part of me thinks that the additional "space" for absorbing CO2 is filled by atmospheric CO2. I just don't know at what rate this would happen. Hours? Days? Weeks?
I think the easy answer for froth is: It probably doesn't matter too much. If you're warming up the beer BEFORE adding the sugar, definitely use the higher temp in the calculation. If you're adding the sugar and bottling while cold, I'd decrease the amount of sugar a little bit and chalk it up to experimentation.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 30 Apr 2012, 23:53, edited 3 times in total.
Post #11 made 13 years ago
Good Day BBH,
I found if you prime the beer for 5C/36F serving(right out of the "fridge") for 2.0 co2 Volume would need around 1oz/28g of sugar.
If you serve the beer at 58F/14C would would need nearly 2oz/54gr of sugar for the same 2.0 carbonation.
The amount of sugar should match the "Style of beer" and the carbonation desired.
Just MHO.
I found if you prime the beer for 5C/36F serving(right out of the "fridge") for 2.0 co2 Volume would need around 1oz/28g of sugar.
If you serve the beer at 58F/14C would would need nearly 2oz/54gr of sugar for the same 2.0 carbonation.
The amount of sugar should match the "Style of beer" and the carbonation desired.
Just MHO.
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Post #12 made 13 years ago
Yep, that's why there's a recommended carbonation level for every beer style. All I'm saying is that the proper amount of sugar to achieve that level is calculated based on beer temp, not serving temp.joshua wrote:The amount of sugar should match the "Style of beer" and the carbonation desired.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 01 May 2012, 08:18, edited 3 times in total.
Post #13 made 13 years ago
The best advise is to probably do the same process each time and through experience you can vary your carbonation level by adjusting the amount of sugar you use.
Ie, try 8g/L this time, if its not fizzy enough use more next time or less next time if it's too fizzy
Ie, try 8g/L this time, if its not fizzy enough use more next time or less next time if it's too fizzy
Last edited by stux on 01 May 2012, 09:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Next: Munich Helles III
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Post #14 made 13 years ago
Poor old Dan 
, You probably wished now you never asked 
. (I've got some suggestions at the end for you Dan.)
It's a great example though of one of the many things in the world of brewing that aren't that black and white or very well explained.
Here's some more thoughts to confuse you (and us)...
If you boil water, you de-oxygenate it. In other words you drive off oxygen and any other gases in the water. It would take an extremely long time for those gases to re-absorb into the water once it is cooled. (As BBH mentioned, things like splashing or applying pressure will speed this process off.)
So, I'm thinking now that Volumes of CO2 already existing in solution before priming should be based on the temperature at end of fermentation. (This is basically the same as BBH's speculation above.)
The problem is fermentation never just suddenly ends. So, when it comes to the cooling dilemma Dan has, the question is, "Is there enough fermentation happening at the low temps to saturate the wort as much as possible?" If there isn't, then I reckon the CO2 in solution could be pretty much the same as it was at 18C." In reality, it's probably somewhere in between. (Exactly what BBH said as well)
How the numbers stack up.
If you had 21 L of wort available for bottling (that is volume into fermentor less fermentor trub), and wish to carbonate to 2.5 vols, my numbers are saying if you bottle at 3.5 C, you'll need 73 grams of corn sugar, at 11 C you need 99 g, at 18 C you'll need 116 g and at 22 C, 124 g.
Not a big difference between 11 and 18 C but certainly a big one between 3.5C and 22C. So, this whole issue only really becomes a problem for people in Dan's situation or keg users who crash chill their fermentor and then naturally carbonate. Both these methods mean lowering the temperature and then raising it again and I really can't find a great reason for doing this.
Keg Users who Crash Chill and Naturally Carbonate.
Firstly, it's common practice for keg users to use half the amount of priming sugar as you would use for bottles. I couldn't find an answer to this on the net anywhere but found one here thanks to stux and Lylo when we discussed this in the BIABacus beta testing section. Their answer was the the headspace in the keg is less than bottles so their increased pressure forces the carb into solution better. Not sure what would happen if your keg wasn't that full
.
We never got around to the temperature question. Just found lots of things on the net giving different answers. So, I've got no answers there, only more questions.
Some suggestions for Dan
Dan, I'd focus on trying to avoid this problem in the future. You mentioned that you dropped the wort to 3.5C for conditioning. On your next brew, prime before you condition. So ferment in the primary, rack to a secondary to clear things up a bit and then bottle from the secondary. Prime according to what temperature you finished fermentation at. Carbonate at the right temperature for the appropriate number of weeks, then chill and condition.
With your current batch, to play it safe, you might want to let it return to 'room temperature' before you prime.
I hope the above wasn't too long and rambling
,
PP
P.S. Or do what stux said.
, You probably wished now you never asked . (I've got some suggestions at the end for you Dan.)It's a great example though of one of the many things in the world of brewing that aren't that black and white or very well explained.
Here's some more thoughts to confuse you (and us)...
If you boil water, you de-oxygenate it. In other words you drive off oxygen and any other gases in the water. It would take an extremely long time for those gases to re-absorb into the water once it is cooled. (As BBH mentioned, things like splashing or applying pressure will speed this process off.)
So, I'm thinking now that Volumes of CO2 already existing in solution before priming should be based on the temperature at end of fermentation. (This is basically the same as BBH's speculation above.)
The problem is fermentation never just suddenly ends. So, when it comes to the cooling dilemma Dan has, the question is, "Is there enough fermentation happening at the low temps to saturate the wort as much as possible?" If there isn't, then I reckon the CO2 in solution could be pretty much the same as it was at 18C." In reality, it's probably somewhere in between. (Exactly what BBH said as well
)How the numbers stack up.
If you had 21 L of wort available for bottling (that is volume into fermentor less fermentor trub), and wish to carbonate to 2.5 vols, my numbers are saying if you bottle at 3.5 C, you'll need 73 grams of corn sugar, at 11 C you need 99 g, at 18 C you'll need 116 g and at 22 C, 124 g.
Not a big difference between 11 and 18 C but certainly a big one between 3.5C and 22C. So, this whole issue only really becomes a problem for people in Dan's situation or keg users who crash chill their fermentor and then naturally carbonate. Both these methods mean lowering the temperature and then raising it again and I really can't find a great reason for doing this.
Keg Users who Crash Chill and Naturally Carbonate.
Firstly, it's common practice for keg users to use half the amount of priming sugar as you would use for bottles. I couldn't find an answer to this on the net anywhere but found one here thanks to stux and Lylo when we discussed this in the BIABacus beta testing section. Their answer was the the headspace in the keg is less than bottles so their increased pressure forces the carb into solution better. Not sure what would happen if your keg wasn't that full
.We never got around to the temperature question. Just found lots of things on the net giving different answers. So, I've got no answers there, only more questions
. Some suggestions for Dan
Dan, I'd focus on trying to avoid this problem in the future. You mentioned that you dropped the wort to 3.5C for conditioning. On your next brew, prime before you condition. So ferment in the primary, rack to a secondary to clear things up a bit and then bottle from the secondary. Prime according to what temperature you finished fermentation at. Carbonate at the right temperature for the appropriate number of weeks, then chill and condition.
With your current batch, to play it safe, you might want to let it return to 'room temperature' before you prime.
I hope the above wasn't too long and rambling
,PP
P.S. Or do what stux said
.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 May 2012, 09:29, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #15 made 13 years ago
As someone who doesnt bottle anymore I dont have any experience with bulk priming.. but it just doesnt sound correct to me that you would need over 50% more sugar at 22c as opposed to 3.5c?
Perhaps if fermentation was happening at 3.5c and co2 was being produced I could see it as possible.. but once fermentation is finished and you are cooling the wort down I wouldn't think much co2 if any would be absorbed due to the low pressure in the fermenter? Like leaving a bottle of flat coke in the fridge.. I don't think its going to absorb anymore co2?
As I say I have no real experience with this.. happy to be corrected.
Perhaps if fermentation was happening at 3.5c and co2 was being produced I could see it as possible.. but once fermentation is finished and you are cooling the wort down I wouldn't think much co2 if any would be absorbed due to the low pressure in the fermenter? Like leaving a bottle of flat coke in the fridge.. I don't think its going to absorb anymore co2?
As I say I have no real experience with this.. happy to be corrected.
Post #16 made 13 years ago
I agree deebo. I really think all the priming calculators expect you to prime before dropping from your fermentation temperature.
In other words, I think the rule really is / should be, "No crash chilling/conditioning before you prime."
In other words, I think the rule really is / should be, "No crash chilling/conditioning before you prime."
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Post #17 made 13 years ago
I did indeed get more than I bargained for, or expected, in asking this question. Nothing like increasing the learning curve for my first brew!
PP, I think I will take your advice, shared by others too, and increase the temp back to room temp, prime and bottle, then leave for a while.
Perhaps crash chilling isn't the way to go. Hadn't really given thought to bottling when I did it. I guess I can do the same brew a second time and ignore the crash chilling and see what difference there is in clarity, that is if I can copy the entire process step for step, which is very unlikely! I briefly delved into the question of whether to rack or not rack and that seems to be a heavily debated topic as well. I'm thinking trial and error is probably the best way to learn and develop my own opinion.
Thanks all for the advice. It's all taken on board and I'll post my results to help clarify some of the suggestions given.
Dan
PP, I think I will take your advice, shared by others too, and increase the temp back to room temp, prime and bottle, then leave for a while.
Perhaps crash chilling isn't the way to go. Hadn't really given thought to bottling when I did it. I guess I can do the same brew a second time and ignore the crash chilling and see what difference there is in clarity, that is if I can copy the entire process step for step, which is very unlikely! I briefly delved into the question of whether to rack or not rack and that seems to be a heavily debated topic as well. I'm thinking trial and error is probably the best way to learn and develop my own opinion.
Thanks all for the advice. It's all taken on board and I'll post my results to help clarify some of the suggestions given.
Dan
Post #18 made 13 years ago
Crash chilling is good for clearing your beer.
But you will still have to let the bottles warm to room temperature for the secondary fermentation to occur once you have put the beer into the bottles.
If it were me I would just enter whatever temperature you fermented at as the temperature for the priming calculators.
Regarding racking, this is how I see it (I tried it a few times but dont bother anymore)
Benefits:
Can store the beer without worrying about autolysis (probably not really a problem for most people) So allows you to store the beer for a bit longer.
Helps the beer to be a bit clearer prior to bottling/kegging
Allows you to mix in bulk priming sugars just before bottling
Cons:
Increased risk of oxygenation while trasferring
Increased risk of infection while transferring
More cleaning/mucking about
But I agree, probably the best way to see if something works for you is to give it a go.
But you will still have to let the bottles warm to room temperature for the secondary fermentation to occur once you have put the beer into the bottles.
If it were me I would just enter whatever temperature you fermented at as the temperature for the priming calculators.
Regarding racking, this is how I see it (I tried it a few times but dont bother anymore)
Benefits:
Can store the beer without worrying about autolysis (probably not really a problem for most people) So allows you to store the beer for a bit longer.
Helps the beer to be a bit clearer prior to bottling/kegging
Allows you to mix in bulk priming sugars just before bottling
Cons:
Increased risk of oxygenation while trasferring
Increased risk of infection while transferring
More cleaning/mucking about
But I agree, probably the best way to see if something works for you is to give it a go.
Post #19 made 13 years ago
Very nice posts Dan and deebo 
This has been a really interesting thread for me as I haven't bottled in years and therefore hadn't stopped and thought it through before in detail.
Now that you have given me the opportunity, I think, if I were a bottler, I would definitely not crash chill before priming. It's just too much work and time for too little benefit (chilling and then re-heating).
This leaves three more choices I can see...
1. Bottle straight from primary and individually prime bottles.
2. Rack to secondary and bulk prime.
3. Bottle straight from primary but via a filter coarse enough to let yeast through and individually prime bottles.
My personal opinion is,that taking the time to do fewer transfers but slow, gentle ones pays off. In other words, two slow transfers are better than three fast ones. I use 3/8"" hose when transferring rather than 1/2 inch. This means a slower transfer but much better control of kettle and fermentor trub. As deebo mentioned above, the less transfers, the less risk of infection and I think this needs to be given high priority.
Conditioning in a bottle at cold temps will always send things to the bottom and fairly quickly. So, if I were a bottler, I think I would do a nice gentle transfer from my kettle into my fermentor and then (in the case of an ale) let it ferment for two weeks and then bottle prime individually straight from the fermentor*. Another two weeks carbing up and then crash chill for a week and drink. (Basic guidelines I know but I think that is where I'd start from.)
Please excuse my long posts to your thread Dan but I really am finding it very interesting,
PP
* Instead of transferring to a secondary and bulk priming, what about, if the day (or a few hours) before you bottled, you "bulk-primed" the primary? Why wouldn't that work?
This has been a really interesting thread for me as I haven't bottled in years and therefore hadn't stopped and thought it through before in detail.
Now that you have given me the opportunity, I think, if I were a bottler, I would definitely not crash chill before priming. It's just too much work and time for too little benefit (chilling and then re-heating).
This leaves three more choices I can see...
1. Bottle straight from primary and individually prime bottles.
2. Rack to secondary and bulk prime.
3. Bottle straight from primary but via a filter coarse enough to let yeast through and individually prime bottles.
My personal opinion is,that taking the time to do fewer transfers but slow, gentle ones pays off. In other words, two slow transfers are better than three fast ones. I use 3/8"" hose when transferring rather than 1/2 inch. This means a slower transfer but much better control of kettle and fermentor trub. As deebo mentioned above, the less transfers, the less risk of infection and I think this needs to be given high priority.
Conditioning in a bottle at cold temps will always send things to the bottom and fairly quickly. So, if I were a bottler, I think I would do a nice gentle transfer from my kettle into my fermentor and then (in the case of an ale) let it ferment for two weeks and then bottle prime individually straight from the fermentor*. Another two weeks carbing up and then crash chill for a week and drink. (Basic guidelines I know but I think that is where I'd start from.)
Please excuse my long posts to your thread Dan but I really am finding it very interesting,
PP
* Instead of transferring to a secondary and bulk priming, what about, if the day (or a few hours) before you bottled, you "bulk-primed" the primary? Why wouldn't that work?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 May 2012, 22:50, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #20 made 13 years ago
If you bulk prime a day (or even several hours) before you bottle, a secondary fermentation will have already begun before you package your beer, further throwing off CO2 volume calculations. In addition, when bulk priming you will need to insure that the priming sugar is well mixed into your wort, therefore stirring up all that trub that had settled so nicely over the last 2 weeks that it was fermenting. (This is why I add my priming solution to my bottling bucket and then rack the beer into it.....thereby mixing things nicely as the transfer takes place.)PistolPatch wrote: * Instead of transferring to a secondary and bulk priming, what about, if the day (or a few hours) before you bottled, you "bulk-primed" the primary? Why wouldn't that work?
---Todd
Last edited by thughes on 01 May 2012, 23:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #21 made 13 years ago
I have only been kegging for a year and had already forgotten that stuff Todd.PP's ideas actually made sense for a minute.
AWOL
Post #22 made 13 years ago
Why do you guys on the other side of the world start posting when I am trying to go to bed?
Basically, that idea was to avoid having to use a bottling bucket or secondary. A bottling bucket sounds like a good idea though. If a bottling bucket means draining the primary into a bucket, adding the priming solution and then bottling straight away (which I know it does), it sounds very much okay to me as there is less time delay between the second and third transfer. Certainly must be much better than going primary for a week and then secondary for a week.
I still haven't given up on my bulk-priming the primary idea though.
PP
Todd, your calculations will be no different. All we are really doing is fiddling with the time but this is important. I think you'd want to bottle just as the yeast re-activates and starts producing CO2 hence why I said the day before or a few hours before. I'd probably like to see the transfer take place a little bit after activity occurs so as to ensure the mix you mentioned above.thughes wrote:If you bulk prime a day (or even several hours) before you bottle, a secondary fermentation will have already begun before you package your beer, further throwing off CO2 volume calculations. In addition, when bulk priming you will need to insure that the priming sugar is well mixed into your wort, therefore stirring up all that trub that had settled so nicely over the last 2 weeks that it was fermenting. (This is why I add my priming solution to my bottling bucket and then rack the beer into it.....thereby mixing things nicely as the transfer takes place.)PistolPatch wrote: * Instead of transferring to a secondary and bulk priming, what about, if the day (or a few hours) before you bottled, you "bulk-primed" the primary? Why wouldn't that work?
---Todd
Basically, that idea was to avoid having to use a bottling bucket or secondary. A bottling bucket sounds like a good idea though. If a bottling bucket means draining the primary into a bucket, adding the priming solution and then bottling straight away (which I know it does), it sounds very much okay to me as there is less time delay between the second and third transfer. Certainly must be much better than going primary for a week and then secondary for a week.
I still haven't given up on my bulk-priming the primary idea though
. PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 02 May 2012, 01:01, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #23 made 13 years ago
I've always kegged, but am also looking at bottling again, so i have been readng this an other topics to get my head around bulk priming.
What i was reading on one of the other forums is that you base your priming rates on the highest temperature since the beer has stopped its main fermentation at, even if you've crash chilled. What this is working on is that the Co2 will come out of solution to corraspond with that higher temperature and it will have minimal fermentation after that to reintroduce more Co2
Now im not sure if this is right or if I was reading it wrongly, but i do know that if you use those calculators and put in your bottling temp at 3 degrees it tells you that you dont need any priming sugar, which is obviously not right.
At the moment i have a 19L batch of Ale in the fridge which has been crash chilling for a week to clear. It was fermented at 17.5 degrees for almost a month with no rests. I am intending to transfer it to a secondary straight out of the fridge, add the priming sugar based on 17.5 degrees and bottle straight away.
Feel free to tell me if you think Im gonna create a batch of bottle boms here as I am just going on reading threads over different forums
What i was reading on one of the other forums is that you base your priming rates on the highest temperature since the beer has stopped its main fermentation at, even if you've crash chilled. What this is working on is that the Co2 will come out of solution to corraspond with that higher temperature and it will have minimal fermentation after that to reintroduce more Co2
Now im not sure if this is right or if I was reading it wrongly, but i do know that if you use those calculators and put in your bottling temp at 3 degrees it tells you that you dont need any priming sugar, which is obviously not right.
At the moment i have a 19L batch of Ale in the fridge which has been crash chilling for a week to clear. It was fermented at 17.5 degrees for almost a month with no rests. I am intending to transfer it to a secondary straight out of the fridge, add the priming sugar based on 17.5 degrees and bottle straight away.
Feel free to tell me if you think Im gonna create a batch of bottle boms here as I am just going on reading threads over different forums
Post #24 made 13 years ago
A couple questions...Aces high wrote:I am intending to transfer it to a secondary straight out of the fridge, add the priming sugar based on 17.5 degrees and bottle straight away.
1) Are you racking to secondary then racking to a bottling bucket?
2) Are you planning to warm up to room temp before bottling?
For 1)...If yes, skip racking to secondary and just rack directly to bottling bucket.
For2)...If yes, you'll definitely be safe with using 17.5C for your priming sugar calculations. If no, I don't really know, but risk (slight probably) being over-carbonated. (If you put a gun to my head and forced me to guess, I'd say it should only make a small difference
)
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 03 May 2012, 09:19, edited 3 times in total.
Post #25 made 13 years ago
Using a bottling bucket IMHO is the only way to go if you are bottling. Oh yes I do the same as Todd, add my boiled and cooled priming solution to the bottling bucket and rack my beer right into it. I give it a gentle stir when finished, wait about 15 minutes and then start bottling.
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