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Thinking of doing first BIAB - Help please

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by Beer Drinker
Hi Everyone

New to the site [2nd post], thinking of doing first BIAB with recipe from GW brew your own BRE, here's where I'm at;

Equipment: Woodfordes Starter Kit, Sieve, 2mtrs Viole, Campden tablets, thermometer, brewing paddle, 'the calculator' [bit confused how this works though]
Plan to buy: Buffalo 40ltr boiler [CC193], Custom BIAB & Hop Sock

Would like to brew OP recipe, as follows;

OG 1058 / FG 1015 / ABV 5.7% / 23 Litres

5460g Pale Malt [Maris Otter]
295g Crystal Malt
215g Chocolate Malt
29g Challenger Hops
14g Fuggle Hops
14g Golding Hops [East Kent]
3g Irish Moss
Dry Hop with few cones Styrian Goldings [Bobek]
Yeast Safale S-04

Total Liquor 34.3 litres
Mash Liquor 14.9 litres
Mash Schedule 66c, 90min

Questions
---------
1. Is the boiler any good and up for the task?
2. Would I need to modify the boiler?
3. How would I clean the boiler and what product to use?
4. How would I transfer the wort from boiler to FV, can I just pour directly using boiler tap from kitchen bench to FV abt 1mtr high?
5. As I do not have a wort cooler and do not fancy lugging the hot wort in FV up to the bathroom what are my options to cool the wort before pitching without getting wort infected?
6. What is the best product to use to sterilise/clean FV & Barrel? I was going to use GW method of using diluted domestos but reading various forums this sometimes leaves a lingering taste and may not kill all germs so now unsure.
7. Do I need any more equipment?
8. Will the recipe need adjusting to suite BIAB?
9. How much water would I need at start of mashing/boil? Will it need treated? If addition water required at boil does it need to be hot or can cold water be used?
10. Would microfibre fleeces be adequate to keep mash temperature in boiler?
11. After pitching will the yeast be able to ferment ok in kitchen without extra heat source? - usually fairly warm during day [don't know temperature]
12. Do I put all the various malts above in Bag when mashing?
13. Do I need to sparge? the EBIAB guide not very clear if this needs to be done
14. Have I missed anything? or any pointers I should know?

Have read thought the various threads for EBIAB and the commentary

Hopefully I haven't asked to many daft questions and sorry questions in a bit of hap hazard fashion just trying to think of everything I am not sure about [which is quite a lot :sad: )

Cheers in advance for your help

Lee

Edited topic title to lower case.

Post #2 made 14 years ago
by hashie
1. Is the boiler any good and up for the task?

Yes it will be fine.

2. Would I need to modify the boiler?

No.

3. How would I clean the boiler and what product to use?

if you clean directly after draining, cleaning should be easy. Hose it out at give it a light scrub with a plastic or stainless steel scourer. Do not use steel wool. You could also use PBW and Starsan if you felt the need.

4. How would I transfer the wort from boiler to FV, can I just pour directly using boiler tap from kitchen bench to FV abt 1mtr high?

Yes this will work fine, or if you are concerned with hot side aeration you could use a siphon.

5. As I do not have a wort cooler and do not fancy lugging the hot wort in FV up to the bathroom what are my options to cool the wort before pitching without getting wort infected?

Search no chill or slow chill.

6. What is the best product to use to sterilise/clean FV & Barrel? I was going to use GW method of using diluted domestos but reading various forums this sometimes leaves a lingering taste and may not kill all germs so now unsure.

Starsan.

7. Do I need any more equipment?

A Hydrometer to measure gravity, other than that it all looks good.

8. Will the recipe need adjusting to suite BIAB?

Only if you don't like the profile. Brew it and see how it turns out then adjust as needed.

9. How much water would I need at start of mashing/boil? Will it need treated? If addition water required at boil does it need to be hot or can cold water be used?

For that final volume I'd be starting with 37 litres/9.8 gallons, but if you used this much your boiler would overflow when you add your grains. So best for you to do trial and error, start with 30 litres/7.9 gallons, add your grains once you reach mash temperature and measure how much room you have left. This will tell you how much your maximum starting volume can be. Do a pre brew boil off test. Fill your boiler with30 litres of water and boil for 60 minutes, measure how much water you have left to get an idea of how much you boil off per hour. You can then use this figure to work out if and how much top up water you will need during the boil. When adding water during the boil, best if it's hot.

10. Would microfibre fleeces be adequate to keep mash temperature in boiler?

Any insulation is better than none, give it a go and report back.

11. After pitching will the yeast be able to ferment ok in kitchen without extra heat source? - usually fairly warm during day [don't know temperature]

Yes, you don't want it too warm, best to keep it around 20°c/68°f

12. Do I put all the various malts above in Bag when mashing?

Yes, although as you get more comfortable with the process this can change. Get a few brews under your belt before asking for more info on this.

13. Do I need to sparge? the EBIAB guide not very clear if this needs to be done

No, but it's up to you.

14. Have I missed anything? or any pointers I should know?

Relax, don't worry, have a home brew :)
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #3 made 14 years ago
by stux
hashie wrote:1. Is the boiler any good and up for the task?

Yes it will be fine.

2. Would I need to modify the boiler?

No.

3. How would I clean the boiler and what product to use?

if you clean directly after draining, cleaning should be easy. Hose it out at give it a light scrub with a plastic or stainless steel scourer. Do not use steel wool. You could also use PBW and Starsan if you felt the need.
it shouldn't really be necessary to sanitize the boiler (ie starsan) but it may be usefull to run some sanitizer through the tap, or pull it apart between brews
4. How would I transfer the wort from boiler to FV, can I just pour directly using boiler tap from kitchen bench to FV abt 1mtr high?

Yes this will work fine, or if you are concerned with hot side aeration you could use a siphon.
alternatively use some silcon hose and a hose clamp to hold it onto the tap, then just run your wort into your fermenter or no-chill cube
5. As I do not have a wort cooler and do not fancy lugging the hot wort in FV up to the bathroom what are my options to cool the wort before pitching without getting wort infected?

Search no chill or slow chill.
yes, basically you can hotpack the wort into an HDPE container, and that will allow the wort to cool naturally with little risk of infection
6. What is the best product to use to sterilise/clean FV & Barrel? I was going to use GW method of using diluted domestos but reading various forums this sometimes leaves a lingering taste and may not kill all germs so now unsure.

Starsan.
I have found the best product for cleaning is PBW, the best for sanitizing is StarSan, we don't sterilize in homebrew scenarios :)

PBW could be replaced with some other oxygen cleaner, ie sodium percarbonate

Starsan can be hard to aquire, in which case, look for iodophor
7. Do I need any more equipment?

A Hydrometer to measure gravity, other than that it all looks good.
consider some sortof cake rack type thing to keep the bag just shy of the element

and perhaps an HDPE cube for no-chill

and some silicon 1/2" hose
8. Will the recipe need adjusting to suite BIAB?

Only if you don't like the profile. Brew it and see how it turns out then adjust as needed.

9. How much water would I need at start of mashing/boil? Will it need treated? If addition water required at boil does it need to be hot or can cold water be used?

For that final volume I'd be starting with 37 litres/9.8 gallons, but if you used this much your boiler would overflow when you add your grains. So best for you to do trial and error, start with 30 litres/7.9 gallons, add your grains once you reach mash temperature and measure how much room you have left. This will tell you how much your maximum starting volume can be. Do a pre brew boil off test. Fill your boiler with30 litres of water and boil for 60 minutes, measure how much water you have left to get an idea of how much you boil off per hour. You can then use this figure to work out if and how much top up water you will need during the boil. When adding water during the boil, best if it's hot.

10. Would microfibre fleeces be adequate to keep mash temperature in boiler?

Any insulation is better than none, give it a go and report back.

11. After pitching will the yeast be able to ferment ok in kitchen without extra heat source? - usually fairly warm during day [don't know temperature]

Yes, you don't want it too warm, best to keep it around 20°c/68°f
I like to ferment most ales between 17-20C, warm end if you want more estery/yeasty/fruity flavours
12. Do I put all the various malts above in Bag when mashing?

Yes, although as you get more comfortable with the process this can change. Get a few brews under your belt before asking for more info on this.

13. Do I need to sparge? the EBIAB guide not very clear if this needs to be done

No, but it's up to you.

14. Have I missed anything? or any pointers I should know?

Relax, don't worry, have a home brew :)
do the wet test to work out your evaporation rate :)

consider playing with this calculator

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=1066
Last edited by stux on 17 Feb 2012, 07:54, edited 3 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #4 made 14 years ago
by Beer Drinker
Thanks Guys

Couple of additional questions

"yes, basically you can hotpack the wort into an HDPE container, and that will allow the wort to cool naturally with little risk of infection"
Could I use a spare pressurised barrel to store the hot wort or will it not be up to the job or ruin it?

"consider some sortof cake rack type thing to keep the bag just shy of the element"
The buffalo boiler has a concealed element, will a cake rack be nescessary

Cheers

Lee

Post #5 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Good Day Lee(Beer Drinker), A pressure barrel won't work very well as a vacuum chamber, it might collapse. If you have an HDPE fermenter bucket with a airlock, it will work fine. Wort gets smaller as it cools, and makes the vacuum.

Your boiler has a concealed element but the bag will over heat, if it is directly on the element. The cake rack is a good way to prevent that from happening.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #7 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, a double bubble type airlock can be filled with water, vodka, or sanitizer.
A three piece airlock should have a sanitizer soaked cotton ball, since it is one way airlock that will work backward(no liquids).
Some folks, use a sanitizer, soaked towel over the top of the HDPE fermenter and that will be good for overnight/slow chill (later that day, to the fermenter) cooling.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #8 made 14 years ago
by BobBrews
Beer Drinker,
If you use a bucket for a fermenter use sanitizer or vodka in the air lock. I occasionally move my bucket and if I carry it by the handle it changes shape and creates a vacuum. The vacuum sucks any fluid in the airlock into the bucket! If you use plan tap water it might be a cause for infection? I like vodka because I can drink it afterwords! But normally I am sanitizing utensils and just use the "Star-San" that's at hand. In that case I just take a shot of vodka for sanitizing my "bad breath"!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #11 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, it appears to have an 10-13mm lift, that should be plenty of space off the heating section.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #14 made 14 years ago
by Beer Drinker
Hi Guys

Sorry more questions

Have decided to try no chill to cool the wort and have bought the 2 x 25l jerrican on the below link and intend to buy the silicon hose on the other link

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI. ... OU:GB:1123
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... 1_21400000

Have searched the forums but cant seem to find the information I was after, which is

1. Do I need to fit anything onto the hose apart from a clip on the tap when syphoning the wort?
2. After syphoning into the jerrican and closing the lid then moving the can around to hit all sides to kill any germs, is that all required until ready to pitch? or will I need to open the jerrican to relieve any pressure or will it be able to cope and not split?
3. After the wort has cooled and ready to pitch can I just pour the wort into the FV to get some air in or is this not advisable as may get infected?

Lee

Post #15 made 14 years ago
by BobBrews
Beer Drinker,

My Hose for moving boiling wort to the cube is held on to the spout with friction. It fits tight and is in no way going to fall off. So I don't know if I am lucky or what? You said "syphoning the wort?" I assume you have a (spout-tap) on the side of the pot?

I drain it into the cube and squeeze out as much air as I can but I don't go crazy! It's hot! The cube is left on it's side for a few minutes and then moved in the house in winter or stays outside in the summer. The cube sits there "untouched" until I need it. I don't fiddle with it. If it starts to swell than "You blew it!" I had one swell once because I was in a hurry "stop me if you heard this already" I took some short cuts and got it infected. My fault! The flowers grew very well after I fed them my wort!

When I need the wort (days or weeks later) I use a sanitized siphon to move the wort onto my "yeast cake" or new yeast. I use compresses Oxygen to aerate and let it go.

Here is a dumb web page showing how an old man does it. http://www.stempski.com/biab.php

P.S. I hired that old man to do the boil for me. I am actually much younger and better looking than him!
Last edited by BobBrews on 28 Feb 2012, 04:55, edited 3 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #16 made 14 years ago
by hashie
1. Do I need to fit anything onto the hose apart from a clip on the tap when syphoning the wort?

No, as Bob said above, you may not even need a clip.

2. After syphoning into the jerrican and closing the lid then moving the can around to hit all sides to kill any germs, is that all required until ready to pitch? or will I need to open the jerrican to relieve any pressure or will it be able to cope and not split?

Once you have filled the jerry can and expelled as much air as you can, leave it alone until you need it. It will not swell unless it has become infected and can otherwise be stored like this for months.

3. After the wort has cooled and ready to pitch can I just pour the wort into the FV to get some air in or is this not advisable as may get infected?

Yes you can, this is how I do it. You can throw the whole lot into your fermenting vessel, trub and all without any noticeable ill effetcs.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #17 made 14 years ago
by lambert
Hi Beer Drinker
I've got similar cubes but in 10L and 20L capacity - they are perfect. Also got the same hose and it's perfect for the job. I do, however, suggest that you buy some extra caps for the cubes (should be available from the same supplier). I've noticed that after 3-5 uses the white washer in the cap is really compressed and it does not "jump back" to it's previous form. It makes obtaining an airtight seal a bit more difficult (you really have to give it a good turn).

Cheers,
Bertie
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Swaziland

Post #18 made 14 years ago
by stux
When you fill your cube, put it up against a wall, put a towel on your knee, lean into the cube and release the pressure until the wort just come out, then do up the lid

Lay the cube on its side, then 30 mins or so later lay it on its other side.

I bring it into the house and store in a cool shaded place until later
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #20 made 14 years ago
by Beer Drinker
Hi Guys

Nearly there getting all of the equipment - just waiting on my BIAB [which hopefully should arrive soon] and I will be ready to begin.

Have bought the Starsan and PBW as recommended earlier in this thread, as follows [hopefully these are the correct ones];

http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... _454g.html
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... _454g.html

Can anybody advise how much starsan to use to no rinse sanitize equipment/fermenter [in metric - grams/litres] and same with the PBW for cleaning? also noticed a lot of warnings on the labels do you have any tips/advise to use these products safely? as not used them before

Thanks for your kind assistance

Lee

Post #21 made 14 years ago
by BobBrews
Beer Drinker,

StarSan comes with a measurable dispenser on the bottle. You have no problem squeezing enough in the spout to do the job. You can reuse starsan if it's clean so when you rinse your bucket dump the clean residue into your next bucket or resealable container. For a 5 gallon 19 liter brew you only need to use enough starsan mixture to cover the surfaces. You don't need to make the full 19 liters! Just make a gallon (4 liters) or so and slosh it around getting all surfaces covered a number of times. Letting it stand in your bucket or carboy while doing other things.

They say "Don't fear the foam" If a little starsan stays in the fermenter and it foams don't worry! Don't try to wash out the foam! You will re-infect the fermenter! Foam is good, infection is not! Many experienced brewers have put a liter of starsan in the keg and shook the living daylights out of it to sanitize. Those same great brewers have forgotten to empty the keg and dumped their beer on top of the starsan. They drank their beer without worrying or getting sick. Starsan has no taste!

The most important part of brewing is getting things sanitized properly. After that it is just fun, fun, fun!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #23 made 14 years ago
by thughes
Straight StarSan can do nasty things to countertops and wood floors from what I have heard but mixed properly StarSan won't hurt you (you can actually consume it if you are so inclined). I've been told the residual foam actually acts as a yeast nutrient too. I have a spare bottling bucket that I keep full (5 gallons) of StarSan, as long as the PH remains below 3.5 it is effective (keeps for a very long time...don't worry if it gets cloudy).

Having a bucket-full on hand is very handy for soaking things on brew day. I can also scoop a cup full out, pour it into my fermenter or keg, and shake it around to sanitize then dump back into the main StarSan bucket. As long as the surface remains wet it is considered sanitized.

My favorite tip: Keep a spray bottle full of StarSan handy so you can sanitize things on-the-fly during the brew day.

---Todd
WWBBD?
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #24 made 14 years ago
by BobBrews
My favorite tip: Keep a spray bottle full of StarSan handy so you can sanitize things on-the-fly during the brew day.
+1 on that. I spray it on the top of kegs to look for C02 leeks!
Last edited by BobBrews on 12 Mar 2012, 21:34, edited 3 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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