Post #2 made 13 years ago
Hi Scott

I've got your calc and I've also got the book so we should be able to sort it out.
I haven't got time tonight to have a proper look so please bear with me,there is a couple of errors but nothing drastic.

Questions to answer while your waiting.

1, Whats your time scale..i.e how long have I got :lol: only asking cos if your brewing this weekend I better get my finger out.. :)

2, Have you purchased the hops yet and if you have can you post the AA%. Don't worry if you haven't as I'll explain what you need to do in the calculator when you do have them.

Yeasty
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
1 no don't panic, got to order the malt and a couple other bits first!
2 I have the hops in the freezer, not sure if I still have the AA% though, may have cut the labels off! Does this matter too much?

Post #4 made 13 years ago
Scottfisher74 wrote:2 I have the hops in the freezer, not sure if I still have the AA% though, may have cut the labels off! Does this matter too much?
Opps..we could do with them really so that the recipe can be scaled correctly. Its not the end of the world it just means that we will have to use average figures and your bitterness could be different. Try to track the AA% down if you can as it will make for a more accurate brew, if you bought the hops mail order or online the invoice sometimes states the AA.

Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 20 Jan 2012, 07:09, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #6 made 13 years ago
Hi Scott
Cracked it !
I’m going to go through my method so that you can give it a go next time. :lol: Open the attached file so that you can refer to it as we go along.

Luckily I have GW’s book and after a bit of number crunching I confirmed that the volumes given in the recipes are End of Boil Volumes (EOBV) this is a tremendous bonus when converting a recipe and takes out a lot of guess work.

The first value I want to get right is the EOBV in cell B11, as this is a cell that has a formula in it we have to change the value by altering the Brew length figure in B5. With a bit of guessing I came to the value of 15.08L which gives you an EOBV of 19L to match the original recipe. Don’t worry if this is not the volume you want to brew we’ll come to that later.

I then changed the efficiency in cell B9 to match the original recipe efficiency figure which GW quotes as 75%. Again this is below what we can expect from our biab but we’ll come back to this.

The next thing to change is the OG to match the recipe so I changed cell B10 to 1.049

The last thing to do on this page is to change cell B13 to match your pot size. 38.3

There are other values that can be altered so as to match your equipment more closely but as this is your first brew we have no historic data. As you brew more and keep records you will be able to dial in values like your evaporation rate and trub losses so making the calculator more accurate.

You can now see that this gives you a grain bill of 4044grams not exactly the same as the recipe but this is because the calculator uses a slightly higher yield per Kg figure in its formulas and GW’s OG figure is rounded up to 49 points. It also gives you your water volumes and more importantly your approximate mash volume, this is the space all the water and grain is going to take up so ideally your boiler size needs to be big enough for this figure. (There are things you can do if you want to brew outside of the limits of your pot but I won’t cover them here.)

Now we move on to the grain bill page. I entered the grains as per the original recipe (4120g), as it’s a single grain brew I only had one set of details to enter. From this the calculator automatically scales the grain bill to suit your recipe (4044g). The bill can be entered in either weight or percentage depending on the information you have available. The percentage figure will always take presidence even if a weight value is added. On future brews with more grains just follow the recipe and input the grains in order and they will be scaled ok.

The hop bill now needs to be scaled. I entered the hop names, quantities and the AA% from the original recipe along with the time of the addition. I also entered the EOBV from the volumes page (19L) in cell E8. You’ll notice that I’ve entered 0.01 for the 0 minute addition. This is so that I could get your version to work out a scaled value, you don’t have to do this in other versions of the calc’ so it’s a bit of a work around. I then entered the AA% values for your hops in Cells J11, J12 & J13. This calculates the weight required to match the IBU’s . You’ll notice that the IBU value is high by a couple of points. This is because the calculator uses an average of the worts gravity for its calculations resulting in a more accurate figure. GW uses the OG of the recipe. The easiest way to adjust this is to reduce the boil time for the first hop addition (Bittering hops) Changing this to 60min brings the total IBU down to 38.2... close enough !

And lastly ......
I’ll leave the rest to you Scott. The recipe just needs adjusting to your efficiency and volumes. Go back to the first sheet change the End of Boil efficiency figure in Cell B9 to 79% or so. 79% is a good starting point for a first brew. Then just change the Brew length value in Cell B5 to whatever you want, the calculator will work everything out for you. Just keep an eye on the Mash volume figure in B21 so that you don’t have too much for your boiler. Max 40L !!!!

Save a copy under a different name and have a play around, you'll soon suss out how things work.

:luck: any questions just ask.

Yeasty
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Post #7 made 13 years ago
Wow thank you so much for doing this! I will now get on and order my grain so that I can have a go. So, with this recipe as it is now set, I will end up with 19l to put in to the fermenting bin? If I decided to go to 23l do I change The brew length cell or the end of brew volume? Being my first brew I will however probably stick to the values you have worked out for me! again thanks for your time I will let you know how I get on!

Post #8 made 13 years ago
Hi Scott.

Just change the brew length figure, as a newbie only the figures in red text should be changed. If you change the end of boil volume cell the spread sheet will not work correctly.

As your boiler is 40L max if you change your brew length to 20L and efficiency to 79% you will have a mash volume of 39.15L. This is probably your max brew length without resorting to removing water before the mash and topping up during the boil.

As its your first brew I'd change the brew length to 19L with an efficiency of 79%. This will give you a mash volume of 37.57 and 20.52 into the fermenter. Have a go at inputting these values and see if you get the same as me.

Yeasty
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Post #11 made 13 years ago
goulders wrote:Is 79% ambitious for the first BIAB?
I think you've got to start somewhere and personally I used 79% for all my early brews. My first biab was a SMaSH and very similiar to Scotts recipe my figures were:

Efficiency "Into Kettle" 82.2
End of Boil Efficiency** 79.9
Efficiency "Into Fermenter" 62.7

I think the main thing when you are a beginner and learning fast is to keep the core values of your calculations the same for at least the first 5 brews. These being Brewlength, efficiency, evaporation and trub losses. Only then will you have the data available ( I presume records are kept)to enable you to dial in your figures with confidence.

Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 23 Jan 2012, 07:17, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #12 made 13 years ago
I'm getting near the end of my mash and the liquid seems very watery still. Is this normal or should I have done something about it? Boiler is maintaining 66 fairly well not sure what else I should have done?

Post #13 made 13 years ago
Good Day ScottFisher74, All my brews get watery at 66C and at 72C (mashout) they have drained very well!
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Post #15 made 13 years ago
Oh dear. Well, I tried to do this brew over the weekend and what a disaster!!
Firstly there was obviously a bit of a problem with my boiler because it kept cutting out even though it wasn't up to the 66 degrees for mashing. Then it suddenly surged, which led to me burning the bottom of the custombiab bag so badly it created a hole letting the grain spill out into the water. This in turn seems to have led to the boiler cutting out and that now, no longer even turns on any more!
I'm not sure anyone can match that in terms of a disaster for their first effort at biab!!!
Not sure what to do now... :-(

Post #16 made 13 years ago
Hi Scott

I'm so sorry you've had a nightmare of a time with your first Biab, I don't suppose it could get any worse. :sad: :cry:

So assuming that you are not giving up.. ( :pray: that you don't) lets tackle your problems with your brewing nightmare.

Firstly your boiler..I'm not an electric boiler guy but I believe that the burco's have a safety cut out to prevent fire if the boiler boils dry. This has probably cut in and stopped your boiler working I think they can be reset. They are also a PITA if you try to run them on there built in thermostat as they never seem to reach boiling temp and when they do they switch themselves off. You need to by-pass the thermostat to acheive a good boil. If your not sure what to do try and find a friendly electrician who can do it for you. If your stuck post some pictures and I'll try to advise you (don't worry electrics is my job).

Secondly your poor bag.. :sad: :sad: .

Its too late now but the first rule when applying heat is to lift your bag off the elements. Gas users can get away with stirring constantly but even gas guys like to be safe and some still lift there bag.
Perhaps it can be repaired ?? Voile is very cheap and readly available so you may be able to patch it up.

Please don't give up Scott, I know things haven't gone well and you may think its not worth it but I think you have been very unlucky to have such a bad time on your first brew. Fix your bag and boiler and get another brew on, its worth it..honest!!

:salute:

Yeasty
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Post #17 made 13 years ago
Scott,

Sorry to hear your first BIAB experience turned out difficult... I didn't have many difficulties until two batches ago and I found myself in the dark, frustrated, with a mess on my hands. My blood pressure was up, and I nearly allowed a perfectly good, fun brew day to get ruined. After I got doneI had to take a look at what I was doing differently and how to correct it next time. After you get the kinks with your set up worked out you will find BIAB quite enjoyable! I have a gas burner and I am always worried about burning my bag. I have a wire basket made for holding a steam pot in the bottom of my kettle that holds it at least three inches off the bottom.

Mark

Post #18 made 13 years ago
Good Day Scott, Sad to hear about your trouble, The bag can be repaired, and shortened a bit.
The Boiler may have a cutoff, if it gets too hot, maybe the bag was on it and that was the problem.
In America there is a little red button under many urns that pop out as a safety, If you have one, it should push back in.
I think you may need a False Bottom for you boiler(I needed one), look over http://biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1113
to see what I mean, Good luck with your next brew!
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Post #19 made 13 years ago
Chin up Scott,yeasty :geek: will cure your electrical problems I am sure. :shoot: Make up a new bag or fix the old one for now,they shouldn't be pretty anyway. :roll:
Keep reading all you can to be ready for your second go.There will be more troubles and setbacks,we have all had them, but in the end you will be making great beer with the best method going.BIAB :champ:
This site has a tremendous amount of available brewing knowhow and the answers will usually come as fast as you can type.Keep brewin! :thumbs:
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Post #20 made 13 years ago
Hey there Scott,

I hadn't read this thread until now but firstly can I say congratulations to you (and Yeasty) for all planning you put in. You both did a great job :clap:.

That's a bugger on having a disaster thrown at you on your first attempt. The brewing gods must have thought, "This guy's got determination, we'll put him on the accelerated learning course." :smoke: Usually this stuff happens later in your career. (You weren't the only one to burn his bag in the last few days. A mate of mine with an electric boiler was applying heat when his phone rang. He thought he had enough time to stop stirring and answer his phone :argh:.)

I'm really pleased that Yeasty is 'on the case'. He will continue to look after you really well. I'm sure that he and maybe some of the electric BIAB brewers will be able to get you back up and running. If you need a hand finding more answers, let us know and I'm sure we'll all be able to help search around for them. (I wonder if there are any other good threads here that show how electric brewers protect their bag. If not, we need to start one.)

Commiserations but also congratulations Scott. I'm sure the brewing gods will be far kinder on your next run.

:salute:
PP
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Post #21 made 13 years ago
An alternative to raising the bag is to use a cake rack in the bottom

I bet if you contact customBiab they can quote to repair the bag. Postage will be cheap ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #22 made 13 years ago
Scottfisher74 wrote: I'm not sure anyone can match that in terms of a disaster for their first effort at biab!!!
Maybe, maybe not but in a few months when you are sharing a cold one with friends, you will have the best story to tell.

It happens to everyone at some point, you just got your nightmare out of the way on your first BIAB. Not to mention that somewhere on this forum there is a thread questioning whether or not you can in fact burn a hole in your bag. You took one for science!

I can't help with the burner or the bag all I have is this; don't give up, you took your first step into a great hobby.

Good Luck, keep us posted please . . .
Last edited by Horace on 08 Feb 2012, 09:19, edited 3 times in total.

Post #23 made 13 years ago
It's always darkest before the dawn. The disaster will be a good conversation piece over the best beer you ever made soon enough. Don't let it get you down. You have brothers out here that have big shoulders to lean on. Don't lean to hard though, they tip easily.
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Post #24 made 13 years ago
Anychance you could post a pic of the burnt hole in your bag? Like Horace said... one for science ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12
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