Hey all,
Wondering what sort of gadgets people use to crush grain? Starting in the bottom (cheaper) end, I was curious if coffee grinders, kitchen wizz sticks etc are ok for crushing for BIAB?
Any experience, suggestions
Post #2 made 15 years ago
Hey goldy
Yeah I've used a food processer to blitz my grain. It works, but tends to break up the husk as much as anything. From what I understand you want to avoid that. Can your grain supplier mill it for you?
Lloydie
Yeah I've used a food processer to blitz my grain. It works, but tends to break up the husk as much as anything. From what I understand you want to avoid that. Can your grain supplier mill it for you?
Lloydie
[center]"Eat my sugar, man[/center]
Post #3 made 15 years ago
Hey LloydieP,
They can from what I can tell, just sussing out all options.
I know a finer crush is ok for BIAB, so anything that can crush should be sweet eh?
They can from what I can tell, just sussing out all options.
I know a finer crush is ok for BIAB, so anything that can crush should be sweet eh?
Post #4 made 15 years ago
Yeah mate there's alot of wank spouted about crushing and stuff. If you slightly wet the grains first it keeps the husk from shredding and all. Might be true, but I suspect its effect is um... negligible.. I know that a finer crush will improve your efficiency. I know that husks contribute to astringency. More than that balance may well be more wank than value.. Hey you could always use a ROLLING PIN. Once will be enough to stop THAT one in its tracks!!!
[center]"Eat my sugar, man[/center]
Post #5 made 15 years ago
Goldy,
Really there are only two options that make any sense. Either you have your supplier crush it for you or you cough up for a mill and crush it yourself. If they crush it for you keep it cool and it will last long enough to be ready when you are. If you buy grain in volume and store it. You can just crush it the day before or the morning of the boil. There is another option that doesn’t make any sense but is somehow more rewarding. Invent or reinvent a home made crusher. It may be ugly or ungainly but there something special about coming up with an idea of your own that somehow works!
I am lazy so I just took the money away from the food and clothes allotment for the wife.
Really there are only two options that make any sense. Either you have your supplier crush it for you or you cough up for a mill and crush it yourself. If they crush it for you keep it cool and it will last long enough to be ready when you are. If you buy grain in volume and store it. You can just crush it the day before or the morning of the boil. There is another option that doesn’t make any sense but is somehow more rewarding. Invent or reinvent a home made crusher. It may be ugly or ungainly but there something special about coming up with an idea of your own that somehow works!
I am lazy so I just took the money away from the food and clothes allotment for the wife.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
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tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #6 made 15 years ago
Depending on your source, most brewshops will crack your grain for you ...and vac-pac your order if you are mail ordering (or not intending to brew straight away.
I'm 600km from a decent HBS, so I gave in and bought a Barley Crusher and now buy my grain in bulk.
I'm 600km from a decent HBS, so I gave in and bought a Barley Crusher and now buy my grain in bulk.
Everybody's waitin' for the man with the bag ... K Starr (1950)
Post #7 made 15 years ago
Thanks for the replies guys, I think I will just forgo the kids clothes & food & get the supplier to crack for me for now. Will buy a mill further down the track.
Cheers
Goldy
Cheers
Goldy
Post #8 made 15 years ago
I use a clay roller that I took a dremel grinding wheel to to scuff up. It has worked quite well for 20+ brews. I did use the drill method talked about in the first part of the post. Later I took it almost completely apart and used the grinding wheel to do a very messy knurl on the rollers. Its working much better these days. I did a 6.8 kilos grain bill for a tripel recently and ran it through in about 10 minutes. I'm happy with that for $12 investment. The machine is much more stout that I though it would be. I've since mounted it in a bucket and use a plastic 4 liter jug from juice as a hopper. I get about 2 kilos of grain in the hopper.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-p ... ain-75784/
The post is huge, but I suspect you'll the idea after the first 20 pages of posts.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-p ... ain-75784/
The post is huge, but I suspect you'll the idea after the first 20 pages of posts.
Joe
Post #9 made 15 years ago
That's impressive bigjoe! Would like to see some pics of that if you get a chance.
I reckon for anyone starting out, having your grain crushed for you is the best option. Mills vary in quality and crush success a lot. I did a brew day with mate of mine who had a small mill with a handle. The grain took so long to crush, we were drunk before we mashed in.
I use this mill (though mine is not all stainless and so was about $300.) It is superb mill but the real work begins when you want to motorise your mill. I was lucky and was able to find a cheap slow geared drill to run my mill...
I was then able to sandwich the above between two boards very easily as the drill also had threads tapped into the body. (This also makes storage and carrying easy.)
When I crush I just put a bucket underneath and a hopper on top as follows.
(Excuse the varied pic sizes.)
Even though I was lucky with the above, it still took a lot of time to work out. You need some good gearing in a motor to run a decent mill. This set-up will crush (beautifully) 5 kgs in a bit over a minute.
Would love to hear more about bigjoe's mill as it sounds as though it could be a great alternative. Read a fair bit of your link joe but couldn't understand your clay roller set-up.
Cheers,
PP
I reckon for anyone starting out, having your grain crushed for you is the best option. Mills vary in quality and crush success a lot. I did a brew day with mate of mine who had a small mill with a handle. The grain took so long to crush, we were drunk before we mashed in.
I use this mill (though mine is not all stainless and so was about $300.) It is superb mill but the real work begins when you want to motorise your mill. I was lucky and was able to find a cheap slow geared drill to run my mill...
I was then able to sandwich the above between two boards very easily as the drill also had threads tapped into the body. (This also makes storage and carrying easy.)
When I crush I just put a bucket underneath and a hopper on top as follows.
(Excuse the varied pic sizes.)
Even though I was lucky with the above, it still took a lot of time to work out. You need some good gearing in a motor to run a decent mill. This set-up will crush (beautifully) 5 kgs in a bit over a minute.
Would love to hear more about bigjoe's mill as it sounds as though it could be a great alternative. Read a fair bit of your link joe but couldn't understand your clay roller set-up.
Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 May 2010, 17:19, edited 11 times in total.
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Post #10 made 15 years ago
I agree about getting it crushed at the LHBS, but I buy grain in bulk for financial reasons.
PP The concept is the same as yours. There are 2 rollers that are geared together. The clay roller handle is removable. I stick a 3/8 inch flat drill bit (wood eater paddle bit) in the hole for the handle. Then hook the drill up top the bit.
My setup looks terrible, but works brilliantly. I put a piece of Plexiglas-glass over the top of the clay roller with screws. I drilled a hole the same size as the 4 liter jug. Then drilled the middle of the cap of the 4 liter jug out so only the outer edges were left. I put the 4 liter jug through the Plexiglas-glass and screw the jug cap back on to it.
I'm quite frugal and love DIY. As I mentioned I'm very happy with it. I'll post some pics hopefully over the weekend. Its a holiday weekend over here (Memorial Day). So between the beer drinking, meat smoking, and pool I'll try to take some pics.
EDIT: To me the key with getting the rollers roughed up a enough is to take the clay roller apart which seems like a pain at first, but isn't so bad.
PP The concept is the same as yours. There are 2 rollers that are geared together. The clay roller handle is removable. I stick a 3/8 inch flat drill bit (wood eater paddle bit) in the hole for the handle. Then hook the drill up top the bit.
My setup looks terrible, but works brilliantly. I put a piece of Plexiglas-glass over the top of the clay roller with screws. I drilled a hole the same size as the 4 liter jug. Then drilled the middle of the cap of the 4 liter jug out so only the outer edges were left. I put the 4 liter jug through the Plexiglas-glass and screw the jug cap back on to it.
I'm quite frugal and love DIY. As I mentioned I'm very happy with it. I'll post some pics hopefully over the weekend. Its a holiday weekend over here (Memorial Day). So between the beer drinking, meat smoking, and pool I'll try to take some pics.
EDIT: To me the key with getting the rollers roughed up a enough is to take the clay roller apart which seems like a pain at first, but isn't so bad.
Joe
Post #11 made 15 years ago
I love my Marga Mill, its almost ready to go out of the box, no construction needed. Just requires (once only) a small modification and an adjustment, and make up an outlet chute from a disposable foil roasting pan.
no need for a drill, only takes 10 min of low effort hand cranking to mill 5 Kg grain bill.
easily done while brining the water up to mash in.
no need for a drill, only takes 10 min of low effort hand cranking to mill 5 Kg grain bill.
easily done while brining the water up to mash in.
Post #12 made 15 years ago
Have to agree with Steve- now I love my Marga!
I spent ages farting around adjusting it with a couple of different holes and adjusted the gap, but always had to double crush it, plus it wouldn't feed right and was a general PITA and had thought about getting another make. However, today I hit the sweet spot and crushes the full- width and in one pass, so I'm stoked. I was using the drill up until now, seriously think that with the feed rate and excellent crush that getting the drill out is hardly worthwhile unless I'm being really lazy.
The sweet spot on mine seems to be about 1/3 of the way between 1 and 2, plus a 50 thou feed roller gap. So, if you're having trouble getting it right, fear not!
I spent ages farting around adjusting it with a couple of different holes and adjusted the gap, but always had to double crush it, plus it wouldn't feed right and was a general PITA and had thought about getting another make. However, today I hit the sweet spot and crushes the full- width and in one pass, so I'm stoked. I was using the drill up until now, seriously think that with the feed rate and excellent crush that getting the drill out is hardly worthwhile unless I'm being really lazy.
The sweet spot on mine seems to be about 1/3 of the way between 1 and 2, plus a 50 thou feed roller gap. So, if you're having trouble getting it right, fear not!
Last edited by Ralph on 30 May 2010, 13:58, edited 11 times in total.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #13 made 15 years ago
Sorry to resurrect an old thread... I'm trying to assemble the stuff to start my first BIAB. To this point I've only done extract and like all new BIABers I've been drawn in by the cheap "start-up" costs of going AG with BIAB. The only things I need to figure out are 1) getting the bag and 2) figuring out how/where to crush my grains. I don't want to spend money on a mill and the wife doesn't want any new stuff in the apartment. What do you guys think about crushing in a blender? I assume its similar the the food processor Lloydie talked about in this thread but I'm hoping someone can elaborate more on it.
Post #14 made 15 years ago
BrickBrewHaus,
A blender will chop up the grain unevenly. Some will be dust or flour some will be uncut. If you lightly pulsed the grain you might get by but for now I would let my home brew supply store crush it evenly. You can store crushed grain in a cool spot or refrigerator.
A blender will chop up the grain unevenly. Some will be dust or flour some will be uncut. If you lightly pulsed the grain you might get by but for now I would let my home brew supply store crush it evenly. You can store crushed grain in a cool spot or refrigerator.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #15 made 15 years ago
Hi there BBH and welcome to the forum,
Bob has written good info above - spot on I think. Because I am incapable of writing short posts, I just want to add to one thing Bob said
...
I think it is, generally, a good idea for all new all-grainers to have their Home Brew Shop crush their grain for them. If your HBS supplies grain, they will usually crush it for free. If your local HBS does not do this, then there will be one in your country that will do this and mail it to you in a vacuum sealed bag at cheap postage costs. You send them the recipe (grain weights) and they do all the work!
Having a mill at home is a bit of fun but is often not practical or necessary especially in the early days of all-grain brewing. Anyone who is considering buying a mill needs to consider the following things I never did...
1. How are you going to mount it to 2 & 3 below?
2. What will you use as a hopper?
3. What motor will you use to drive it? If using your hand, how long will it take you?
4. How good is the mill you are going to buy? How much adjustment does it have? How big are the rollers? How solid is it?
5. Do you own quality scales?
6. How much will the mill, motor, mountings, hopper and scales cost you?
and, last but definitely not least...
7. How much room do you have at home to store grain? I think if you don't have enough space to store two 25 kg bags of base malt plus around 8 assorted sizes of specialty malts then justifying a mill might be difficult.
I'm really pleased with my mill but it took a lot more work than I thought to set up and I was very lucky in this. If you buy a mill for x dollars, it will probably cost you 3-4 x to really get it happening.
In hindsight, I really just got lucky with my mill even though it ended up costing me about 3 x. It certainly would not have been a mistake for me to hold off for another year or two before buying a mill so I reckon don't rush into it.
As Bob said, crushed grain stores well and in the early days of all-grain brewing, it is hard to work out which grains you want to hold in stock anyway. Until you can justify one or two 25 kg bags of grain, I'd hold off on the mill.
Cheers,
PP
Bob has written good info above - spot on I think. Because I am incapable of writing short posts, I just want to add to one thing Bob said
...I think it is, generally, a good idea for all new all-grainers to have their Home Brew Shop crush their grain for them. If your HBS supplies grain, they will usually crush it for free. If your local HBS does not do this, then there will be one in your country that will do this and mail it to you in a vacuum sealed bag at cheap postage costs. You send them the recipe (grain weights) and they do all the work!
Having a mill at home is a bit of fun but is often not practical or necessary especially in the early days of all-grain brewing. Anyone who is considering buying a mill needs to consider the following things I never did
...1. How are you going to mount it to 2 & 3 below?
2. What will you use as a hopper?
3. What motor will you use to drive it? If using your hand, how long will it take you?
4. How good is the mill you are going to buy? How much adjustment does it have? How big are the rollers? How solid is it?
5. Do you own quality scales?
6. How much will the mill, motor, mountings, hopper and scales cost you?
and, last but definitely not least...
7. How much room do you have at home to store grain? I think if you don't have enough space to store two 25 kg bags of base malt plus around 8 assorted sizes of specialty malts then justifying a mill might be difficult.
I'm really pleased with my mill but it took a lot more work than I thought to set up and I was very lucky in this. If you buy a mill for x dollars, it will probably cost you 3-4 x to really get it happening.
In hindsight, I really just got lucky with my mill even though it ended up costing me about 3 x. It certainly would not have been a mistake for me to hold off for another year or two before buying a mill so I reckon don't rush into it.
As Bob said, crushed grain stores well and in the early days of all-grain brewing, it is hard to work out which grains you want to hold in stock anyway. Until you can justify one or two 25 kg bags of grain, I'd hold off on the mill.
Cheers,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Sep 2010, 02:14, edited 11 times in total.
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Post #16 made 15 years ago
Actually my LHBS does have a mill, I don't know the quality but they have one. One problem is that they are not well stocked on a good assortment of grains (mostly specialty grains). I think I could produce a number of beers using the grains they have in stock, but I would be limited. So if I want to make a beer and they have all the grains in stock, this will be the best option.
I'm also not opposed to buying pre-milled grains online. However, let's say I want to make a beer that calls for some specialty grains that my LHBS does not carry. If I buy them pre-milled online, I will only be using a small amount of the 1 lb bag (that is the minimum size I've been able to find). I'm then left with a bag that has been milled already and staling as it waits to be used in a future beer. (I didn't mention but I'll be doing mini-BIAB, thanks Ralph for the guide) It's this second reason that has me wondering what to do.
So what if I do this...Buy the base malts at my LHBS (they had a decent selection of these) and have them mill those grains. If they happen to have the specialty grains I need for a particular beer then buy those too and mill the appropriate amount for my next beer. If my LHBS doesn't carry the specialty grains I need, then buy a bag of UN-MILLED grains online. On brew day, throw the un-milled specialty grains in the blender. Assuming that they make up only a small percentage of the grain bill, maybe the disadvantages Bob listed might not be as big of a problem?
As I'm typing its making question myself and shows how little I know yet. Do specialty grains need to be milled? Also, maybe the small amount of grains that I'll need to "mill" myself can be done with a rolling pin (I think I've read that somewhere) instead of a blender?
Starting to get long winded, think I'll stop now.
I'm also not opposed to buying pre-milled grains online. However, let's say I want to make a beer that calls for some specialty grains that my LHBS does not carry. If I buy them pre-milled online, I will only be using a small amount of the 1 lb bag (that is the minimum size I've been able to find). I'm then left with a bag that has been milled already and staling as it waits to be used in a future beer. (I didn't mention but I'll be doing mini-BIAB, thanks Ralph for the guide) It's this second reason that has me wondering what to do.
So what if I do this...Buy the base malts at my LHBS (they had a decent selection of these) and have them mill those grains. If they happen to have the specialty grains I need for a particular beer then buy those too and mill the appropriate amount for my next beer. If my LHBS doesn't carry the specialty grains I need, then buy a bag of UN-MILLED grains online. On brew day, throw the un-milled specialty grains in the blender. Assuming that they make up only a small percentage of the grain bill, maybe the disadvantages Bob listed might not be as big of a problem?
As I'm typing its making question myself and shows how little I know yet. Do specialty grains need to be milled? Also, maybe the small amount of grains that I'll need to "mill" myself can be done with a rolling pin (I think I've read that somewhere) instead of a blender?
Starting to get long winded, think I'll stop now.
Post #17 made 15 years ago
Hello BB, your reasoning above is very sound. Get the bulk of your grains milled at your LHBS and mill/crack the small amount of specialty malts at home ( yes, they do need to be milled ).
This would also allow you to store some specialty grains for longer periods as they un-milled grain will store better, longer.
Depending on the amount of grain you need to mill on your brew day, you could also consider using a coffee grinder. These do a good crush and are (generally) very adjustable.
This would also allow you to store some specialty grains for longer periods as they un-milled grain will store better, longer.
Depending on the amount of grain you need to mill on your brew day, you could also consider using a coffee grinder. These do a good crush and are (generally) very adjustable.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #18 made 15 years ago
Just an update for my search...PP was right about ordering the grain bill online and having them mill everything. Brewmasterswarehouse.com allows you to order a custom built grain bill, not just in increments of 1 lb bags, and they will mill everything. Its also nice because they sell hops, yeast, adjuncts, etc. and ship everything for a pretty low, flat rate fee. I haven't actually ordered from them yet, but it seems like this is a pretty good solution for me (I guess it doesn't do much for the Aussie's since it's based in the US). I'll bet with some looking around someone could find some more online stores like this. This type of store is a good option for those who are tight on space and/or money for buying a mill but still want to brew AG.
Post #19 made 15 years ago
Glad to hear you found someone to look after you BB. We are lucky here in Aussie as there are quite a few retailers that you can send your exact recipe to and they'll weigh and crush it regardless of the quantities.
If you do get to the stage where you want a mill, get a good one. I remember going to a mates and he had the slowest, hand-powered mill ever. We had beers while we crushed the grain and I swear we were drunk by the time we had finished crushing - it took ages. The rest of the day was very funny but we did get great beer out of it in the end.
If you do get to the stage where you want a mill, get a good one. I remember going to a mates and he had the slowest, hand-powered mill ever. We had beers while we crushed the grain and I swear we were drunk by the time we had finished crushing - it took ages. The rest of the day was very funny but we did get great beer out of it in the end
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