I have done 6 BIABs now and am starting to feel more comfortable with how I am going but I am starting to look at things a bit more and have a few questions that would help me lots. I have been doing some google searchs for about an hour and am still scratching my head.
First I use the calculator for my brews and it works great thanks to Pistol Patch helping me out. I will be giving beersmith 2 a demo tomorrow. First in a recipes from say Aussie Home Brewer in the efficency section they all vary, is this due to the actual efficiency rates from the grain used? or is it there brew house efficency. Should I use my brew house efficiency which seems to be close to 75% or the recipe efficiency.
Secondly I have noticed that when I put the batch size from the recipes into the calculator, the grain I need ends up just over 1 kg more than the recipe?? Why is this? should i be ignoring the batch size and just work backwards on the calculator until I get the grain the same as the recipe and then adjust the batch size? and if so again why?
Kind Regards,
chefeffect.
Edit: I should have mentioned the efficiency I have been putting into the calculator has been 79% which has been giving me an extra 1 kg of grain or so, If I use my 75% it closer to 1.4kg.
Post #2 made 14 years ago
I just played around with the calculator and changed the kettle trub and buffer to zero and the grain seems to be a lot closer to the recipes, is this the answer?
Post #3 made 14 years ago
Hi ya chef,
Glad to hear all has been going well.
BeerSmith1 and 2 have an extremely confusing efficiency set up. It is very difficult to get your head around. Most people don't and that's why you see such confusing and conflicting information.
Pat has written a post on the BeerSmith forum here that explains the problem and provides a solution. I would study that and then study the BeerSmith2 Guide here.
Studying and understanding the above is the only way you'll get BS working accurately for you. (There's actually still a few little bugs in it I've noticed.)
So have a read and let us know how you go.
Good luck!
PP
P.S. The new calculator is going to solve a lot of your questions above btw so you can look forward to a lot of clarity there and a lot less
P.P.S. Just saw your second post. You are asking the right questions. The links above will answer them
Glad to hear all has been going well.
BeerSmith1 and 2 have an extremely confusing efficiency set up. It is very difficult to get your head around. Most people don't and that's why you see such confusing and conflicting information.
Pat has written a post on the BeerSmith forum here that explains the problem and provides a solution. I would study that and then study the BeerSmith2 Guide here.
Studying and understanding the above is the only way you'll get BS working accurately for you. (There's actually still a few little bugs in it I've noticed.)
So have a read and let us know how you go.
Good luck!
PP
P.S. The new calculator is going to solve a lot of your questions above btw so you can look forward to a lot of clarity there and a lot less
P.P.S. Just saw your second post. You are asking the right questions. The links above will answer them
Last edited by PistolPatch on 15 Aug 2011, 21:50, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
You should enter your mash efficiency into the calculator, not brewhouse efficiency
I find the calculator does recommend more grain than beersmith2 for the same recipe. I think this is because BS2 has a much more accurate potential extract measurement, where as the calculator assumes all grains provide the same potential extract
I find the calculator does recommend more grain than beersmith2 for the same recipe. I think this is because BS2 has a much more accurate potential extract measurement, where as the calculator assumes all grains provide the same potential extract
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #5 made 14 years ago
Hi PP,
Thanks for the links, I had a quick look last night before I posted the topic but I will have a more detailed look tonight.
Hey Stux,
Cheers mate that answers a part of my question on the grain amounts, I assumed that might have been part of the answer but was not toos sure. So just to clarify the efficency on the recipes is the recipe makers brewhouse efficiency? Sorry Im a little confused with why they would put an efficiency on all the recipes if we would just use our own brewhouse efficiency obviously I am missing something I appoligise for the confussion. For example I want to brew "Doc's Bavarian Weizen" http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... recipe=473 and the efficiency on the recipe is 65%?? how do I use that or do I ignore it?
Thanks again,
Chef
Thanks for the links, I had a quick look last night before I posted the topic but I will have a more detailed look tonight.
Hey Stux,
Cheers mate that answers a part of my question on the grain amounts, I assumed that might have been part of the answer but was not toos sure. So just to clarify the efficency on the recipes is the recipe makers brewhouse efficiency? Sorry Im a little confused with why they would put an efficiency on all the recipes if we would just use our own brewhouse efficiency obviously I am missing something I appoligise for the confussion. For example I want to brew "Doc's Bavarian Weizen" http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... recipe=473 and the efficiency on the recipe is 65%?? how do I use that or do I ignore it?
Thanks again,
Chef
Last edited by chefeffect on 16 Aug 2011, 10:02, edited 5 times in total.
Post #6 made 14 years ago
Well, it might be their brewhouse efficiency or it might not 
Say it was then you can divide the recipe by their brewhouse efficiency and multiply by yours to scale the grain. But there are a whole bunch of reasons why that doesn't work
A much better approach is to tell a clever program how much wort at what OG you want and then your mash efficiency and it can tell you how much grain.
Say it was then you can divide the recipe by their brewhouse efficiency and multiply by yours to scale the grain. But there are a whole bunch of reasons why that doesn't work
A much better approach is to tell a clever program how much wort at what OG you want and then your mash efficiency and it can tell you how much grain.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #7 made 14 years ago
Thanks for that, I will give beersmith 2 a crack tonight and see how I go.
Post #8 made 14 years ago
Ok cool, I have spent the last hour an a half reading all the info, man lots to take in but my profile is set. Is it strange the biab efficiency standards start at like 70% on beersmith yet after following all the advice mine is 63%?? glad I followed all your advice thanks heaps starting to feel loads more comfortable with trying some new recipes, just a matter of refining the process.
Thanks again guys..
Thanks again guys..
Post #9 made 14 years ago
This whole thing of BeerSmith working on 'Efficiency into Fermenter" (BeerSmith's 'brewhouse efficiency') is a major PITA. I know BIABrewer.info spent a lot of time/effort explaining how big a problem this is to BeerSmith prior to release and fully expected it would be fixed prior to release. It wasn't.
I think that is why Pat wrote the big post I linked above - an attempt at trying to explain what he saw as a major flaw in an otherwise good program.
My personal feeling is that BeerSmith is focussing too much on features and forgetting the basics. Unfortunately, if the basics don't work, then the features are pointless.
Apart from the obvious problems you are struggling with chef, there are other problems that the BB.info team have been picking up as we develop the new calculator. BeerSmith has been advised of these and will hopefully fix in the next build. If not, who knows what BB.info will do?
Now that I have had my little ramble, why are you getting 63% and not 70%? If your, Beersmith batch size
(volume into fermenter) is 23 L and your Trub Loss (Kettle trub) is 3.82 L and your 'Bottling/Fermentation Loss' is 1.7 L then your """Brewhouse Efficiency"""" should be 70% and your mash efficiency should be 81.6%.
So, what is different?
PP
I think that is why Pat wrote the big post I linked above - an attempt at trying to explain what he saw as a major flaw in an otherwise good program.
My personal feeling is that BeerSmith is focussing too much on features and forgetting the basics. Unfortunately, if the basics don't work, then the features are pointless.
Apart from the obvious problems you are struggling with chef, there are other problems that the BB.info team have been picking up as we develop the new calculator. BeerSmith has been advised of these and will hopefully fix in the next build. If not, who knows what BB.info will do?
Now that I have had my little ramble, why are you getting 63% and not 70%? If your, Beersmith batch size
(volume into fermenter) is 23 L and your Trub Loss (Kettle trub) is 3.82 L and your 'Bottling/Fermentation Loss' is 1.7 L then your """Brewhouse Efficiency"""" should be 70% and your mash efficiency should be 81.6%.So, what is different?
PP
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
Yeah it is confusing I guess I still have not looked enough into it to understand completely.
Ok for my brew house efficiency of 63% I got that because my average of my mash efficieny over 5 brews has come out at 75%. I have learnt a few better tricks to get this up and I will adjust it as I get better.
I followed the link above and followed the instructions, you will notice that even "Pat" ended up with 65% brew house efficiency from a mash efficiency of 80%, and the post mentions to put this in the brew house efficiency in beer smith????
Thats how I ended up with 63% maybe I missed the point again?
Ok for my brew house efficiency of 63% I got that because my average of my mash efficieny over 5 brews has come out at 75%. I have learnt a few better tricks to get this up and I will adjust it as I get better.
I followed the link above and followed the instructions, you will notice that even "Pat" ended up with 65% brew house efficiency from a mash efficiency of 80%, and the post mentions to put this in the brew house efficiency in beer smith????
Thats how I ended up with 63% maybe I missed the point again?
Post #11 made 14 years ago
No, that's good chef! You are using the figures the right way 
. I didn't realise that you had done your 5 brews so all is good. The difference between mash and brewhouse efficiency basically indicates how much you are losing to trub.
Great to hear you have found a few tricks to get your mash efficiency up a little more although 75% means that you are certainly getting in the ballpark.
PP
. I didn't realise that you had done your 5 brews so all is good. The difference between mash and brewhouse efficiency basically indicates how much you are losing to trub.Great to hear you have found a few tricks to get your mash efficiency up a little more although 75% means that you are certainly getting in the ballpark.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Aug 2011, 09:10, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #12 made 14 years ago
Ahhh that makes sence with the trub 
I think my original question has been answered 
thanks heaps. I actually have been getting a lot less trub lately, but I used the trub settings from the calculator and what Pat used, so I will take my readings again over the next 5 or so brews and start refining my details.
I think my original question has been answered thanks heaps. I actually have been getting a lot less trub lately, but I used the trub settings from the calculator and what Pat used, so I will take my readings again over the next 5 or so brews and start refining my details.
Post #13 made 14 years ago
that's why i use The Calculator (the simple older version, without the macros) together with Brewmate software. less features, less headache.PistolPatch wrote: My personal feeling is that BeerSmith is focussing too much on features and forgetting the basics. Unfortunately, if the basics don't work, then the features are pointless.
Last edited by shibolet on 17 Aug 2011, 18:13, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #14 made 14 years ago
Shib: I always like undertanding what I am using and there's actually a lot of stuff the simple calculator version does that the fancy stuff won't
chef: The trub figures that Pat used were just to get you started. Some people who use flowers and a whirlpool or hopsock would get very little trub so don't be surprised if your trub figs turn out completely different.
Cheers!
chef: The trub figures that Pat used were just to get you started. Some people who use flowers and a whirlpool or hopsock would get very little trub so don't be surprised if your trub figs turn out completely different.
Cheers!
Last edited by PistolPatch on 17 Aug 2011, 19:27, edited 5 times in total.
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