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First Biab

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by deebo
Got almost evething I need to get going. Waiting on an ebay refractometer and temperate stick, hydrometer will have to do for now.
One thing I cant work out in beersmith is how to show what my strike water temperature should be on the brew steps sheet?

All I see is:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Sauvin Lager (First BIAB)
Brewer: Deebo
Asst Brewer: SWMBO (hopefully)
Style: Premium American Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l
Boil Size: 32.42 l
Bottling Volume: 19.60 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 23.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 2 95.2 %
0.25 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 4.8 %
15.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 4 16.2 IBUs
10.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 7.0 IBUs
10.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
5.00 g Gelatin (Primary 24.0 hours) Fining 9 -
0.50 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 -
2.0 pkg German Lager (DCL Yeast #W-34/70) [50.00 Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.25 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 35.63 l of water and heat to 66.7 C o 66.7 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 75.6 C ov 75.6 C 10 min

Any tips how I can get the strike water shown? Also I think 35.6L of water and 5.25 kg of grain is probably going to be pretty close to the top of the urn, is it possible to adjust this to 33L somehow?

Thanks
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Last edited by deebo on 17 Jun 2011, 21:34, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 14 years ago
by stux
deebo wrote: Also I think 35.6L of water and 5.25 kg of grain is probably going to be pretty close to the top of the urn, is it possible to adjust this to 33L somehow?
Why though?

Its not like you're boiling with that much liquid. I would normally have my mash volume right up to the top of my pot, within 1cm of the brim.

When you pull the bag, there will be a lot more room for the boil
Last edited by stux on 11 Jun 2011, 21:13, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #3 made 14 years ago
by stux
BTW, I'm not sure how to adjust it using BeerSmith, but I do know you could adjust it with the Maxi-BIAB Calculator. Just specify you mash limit in cm, and it will concentrate the recipe to change the volumes, without changing the final results.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #4 made 14 years ago
by deebo
stux wrote:
deebo wrote: Also I think 35.6L of water and 5.25 kg of grain is probably going to be pretty close to the top of the urn, is it possible to adjust this to 33L somehow?
Why though?

Its not like you're boiling with that much liquid. I would normally have my mash volume right up to the top of my pot, within 1cm of the brim.

When you pull the bag, there will be a lot more room for the boil
Not to concerned if it is near the top but in my head i figured 5kg of grain would take up about 5l (this is just guessing with no logical basis) and that would overflow.
Last edited by deebo on 11 Jun 2011, 21:39, edited 5 times in total.

Post #5 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Hi there deebo and welcome to the forum :peace:

I think the BIAB profiles in BeerSmith2 are not adjusting the strike water temperature. I'd have to look into it more later. For now simply heat your strike water about 2 degrees higher than what you want to mash in at. This will get you about right and you can add more heat if it needs it.

Any software takes considerable time to become familiar with and all have strengths and weaknesses. The Calculator here is relatively fast to learn but very limited and clumsy at present. stux's Maxi-Calculator will do things that BeerSmith2 can't even do yet but requires some concentrated study. BeerSmith2 also requires very real study. For example, in BeerSmith2...

First you'll need to set up your own equipment profile so as you can scale the above recipe down to suit your own equipment or you may choose to use the 'Top Up for Boiler' and/or 'Top Up Water for Fermenter' options to allow you to employ some Maxi-BIAB techniques. Once you have done this, there are plenty of incorrect ways you can try and "scale" a recipe in BeerSmith2 :lol:

So, unfortunately, recipe conversion and correct software use takes a while to learn and a fair bit of study.

This site recommends new all-grainers study The Calculator first before even trialling BeerSmith2. Once you've spent a bit of time on that, you can get help with your recipe in this thread. This will equip you well for learning how to use more powerful programs correctly without getting into trouble :argh:.

So, a bit more reading and you'll be under way.

With all-grain, it's hard to brew a really bad beer so with your recipe, you can even do something as simple as say reduce everything by a third so you can be sure it will fit into your pot and off you go!

In fact, this will end up being more accurate than using software incorrectly.

Sorry there's no other quick answer for you for now.

;)
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 11 Jun 2011, 21:56, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
by stux
deebo wrote:
stux wrote:
deebo wrote: Also I think 35.6L of water and 5.25 kg of grain is probably going to be pretty close to the top of the urn, is it possible to adjust this to 33L somehow?
Why though?

Its not like you're boiling with that much liquid. I would normally have my mash volume right up to the top of my pot, within 1cm of the brim.

When you pull the bag, there will be a lot more room for the boil
Not to concerned if it is near the top but in my head i figured 5kg of grain would take up about 5l (this is just guessing with no logical basis) and that would overflow.
The Maxi-Calculator actually calculates the dry and wet grain displacement ;)

Dry Displacement is about 5L, and wet is about 3.6L

So, the trick is to reserve a few L of water, dough-in and once your grains are wet, then add back as much of the reserved water as you can
Last edited by stux on 11 Jun 2011, 23:12, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #7 made 14 years ago
by deebo
Thanks for the tips. I did go through setting up equipment etc but I think a lot of it is guesswork until I have done a few brews to work out evaporation etc.
I did start to do a test run with some water to work out evaporation but it set off the smoke alarms.. looks like I will be brewing outside or under the bathroom fan.
I just slightly modified the 40l urn profile changed efficiency to 65% and batch volume to 21L to get a rough idea for the first batch.

I was trying to design the recipe around my equipment so hopefully the qty of grain is ok, Will post it in the recipe conversion thread and see what people think.

Post #8 made 14 years ago
by deebo
Not sure if I should make a new post for this.

How much does about 6kg of wet grains weigh?

Would tying the rope to the table leg that the urn is sitting on be ok do you think (30l of water has to be heavy enough to outweigh the grain right?)

Trying to find where I can tie the rope for draining, so far other ideas are:
door handle (dont think this would fare too well with the weight)
an outdoor umbrella stand (not sure how to attach this and may not be heavy enough)
mesh tray on top of urn to rest bag on (may be messy? forgo pulley alltogether?)
talk the wife into holding the rope/squeezing the bag (not likely)
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Post #9 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Your grain will absorb around 500ml per kg of dry grain. So your drained bag will weigh around 9kg and around 12 -13kg when first lifted.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #11 made 14 years ago
by BobtheBrewer
[Would tying the rope to the table leg that the urn is sitting on be ok do you think (30l of water has to be heavy enough to outweigh the grain right?)

Yep. I sit my urn on a small metal framed table and just tie the rope to the leg of the table.

Post #12 made 14 years ago
by stux
BTW, You're planning a single stage pulley by the looks of it.

Be aware that this doesn't get you any mechanical advantage and it will actually be slightly harder to pull the rope than lifting 12KG.

If you find you want a bit more advantage then go for a double pulley next time

I found that the single pulley was very hard on a double batch, and I doubled the pulley up for my 3 batch experiment (with a 50L pot!), but I only managed 2.75 batches ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #13 made 14 years ago
by deebo
stux wrote:BTW, You're planning a single stage pulley by the looks of it.

Be aware that this doesn't get you any mechanical advantage and it will actually be slightly harder to pull the rope than lifting 12KG.

If you find you want a bit more advantage then go for a double pulley next time

I found that the single pulley was very hard on a double batch, and I doubled the pulley up for my 3 batch experiment (with a 50L pot!), but I only managed 2.75 batches ;)
It was the only pulley I could see in the big green shed (hopefully it holds the weight, think I have seen another picture here using the same pulley).
I think I should be ok with the first batch (5.25 kg of grain) but might end up checking out a boating shop to maybe get a cleat and a better pulley later on (do you have a picture of your double pulley setup? Where did you get the double pulley from?)
Last edited by deebo on 12 Jun 2011, 20:05, edited 5 times in total.

Post #14 made 14 years ago
by WhiteRhyno
deebo wrote:Not sure if I should make a new post for this.


Would tying the rope to the table leg that the urn is sitting on be ok do you think (30l of water has to be heavy enough to outweigh the grain right?)
Another way would be to tie it back on itself. i.e If you had a loop already tied at the bag end, you could thread the working end of the rope through this and tie it off.
deebo wrote:Thanks for the tips. I did go through setting up equipment etc but I think a lot of it is guesswork until I have done a few brews to work out evaporation etc.
I have found the evaporation rate in the Calculator to be bang on, just plug in the diameter of your kettle and you are sweet.
I found with my profile setup in the calculator, transferring all the relevant data into Beersmith2 was a breeze
Last edited by WhiteRhyno on 15 Jun 2011, 17:07, edited 5 times in total.

Post #15 made 14 years ago
by deebo
Well did my first BIAB today had a few problems but at the end of the day looks like my OG is only a point off.

First problem was I lost heat pretty rapidly for some unknown reason (perhaps i pulled temp prob out of mash when making it visible below sleeping bag? Maybe I just need better insultation) Temp started at 67.1c and after 30 minutes was down to 65c, at 60 min it was 63.7 so i lifted the bag and gave it a little bit of heat up to 65.3 and ended at 64.2 at 90 minutes. After this had about 33L at 10.5 brix

My pulley system wasnt high enough and also stretchyness in rope made it hard to tie at right height. Because of this I just chucked the bag in a bucket on top of a colander and gave it a squueze.. will have to sort something else out for next time.. maybe rope with a number of loops I can hook the grain bag onto or a higher pulley with easier way to tie it off.

I figure since I already had in the bucket on a colander I would chuck some half cooled water from the kettle onto it (probably about 2L at 65c) Then poured it back into the urn.

Main problem started when I misread my sight guage (I marked 5L increments but the first increment was 10L which I forgot and thought was 5L.. I need to fix that next time) so I topped up to 34L instead of 30l before the boil, so had to wait around for an hour and bit for it to evaporate back down to 30 to start boil timer. The 34L read 10 brix before boil.

Then I read a bit about no chill effecting hop schedule so decided to just do 15g at 15 min and 15g at 0 min then use french press to add flavour into fermenter tommorow. Not really sure how to take this into account in beersmith 2.. any ideas?

I let the wort cool for 10 minutes then tried to whirlpool and left it for another 10 minutes to settle (how long should I actually leave after whirlpooling before running it off?). Not really sure if this worked or not as I left lid on when draining into cube but I didnt really see any pile in the center, just a mass of trub down the bottom of the urn (maybe the exposed element gets in the way or I didnt leave it long enough before whirlpooling, not really sure on this one).

Are my calculations below for working out my evap rate correct?
e.g.
2:36 30l
3:16 28L (40 minutes later)
Which I guess is 3L per hour, so would I put 4.5L as the evap rate for 90 min to put in beersmith?

At the end of the day (it was a pretty long day, started water heating at 9:25 and finished cleaning up around 5) I ended up with about 21 or 22l in the cube at 13.2 brix which I am happy with for my first attempt. Hopefully extended boil didnt darken wort too much.

Also to top off the day my monster mill 2 arrived today (only 12 days from date of order!) So next week I can start cracking my bulk grain. (Does anyone have tips for storing bulk grain? I was thinking wheelie bin from bunnings may be easiest)

Post #16 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Hey Deebo, congrats on your first BIAB.

I wouldn't worry about the mash temperature drop, most conversion takes place in the first 20 minutes (at least, that is what the interweb thingy says), so all will be fine and as you said you were only 1 point off OG.

No idea on your hop schedule and BS2, that's 1 thing I've never bothered with.

Whirlpooling is something else I don't do. I can't see a need for it.

Your logic on evaporation sounds fine, only time and measurement will clarify the figures you already have.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #17 made 14 years ago
by deebo
I ended up with just under 20l into fermenter.. lost a fair bit more to urn and cube that I thought I would.

Let it run from cube tap and splash down into fermenter.. as I dont normally aerate was bit worried bout infections.. sprayed a bit of starsan mist around to help with my paranoia.

Added about 1L of water from coffee plunging 20g of Nelson Sauvin hops for 5 mins.

The wort also tasted more sweet/syrupy that I am used to (it was 13.2 brix 1.052) so I decided to top it up to 22.5L so I would end up with about a kegs worth and maybe a bottle or 2. This brought the graivty down to about 11 brix or 1.043.
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