Copied over from "BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions" forum.
smyrnaquince wrote:I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this question. Please let me know if there is a better forum.
Starting with the posted NRB's All Amarillo APA recipe fom BIABacus PR1.3, I played with the efficiency in Section X until I got the Target grain bill to match the one that comes up with the BIABacus default efficiency. I had to set the efficiency to 83.14% to get the grain bills to match.
I understand that BIABacus lets the user adjust pretty much any parameter to match their own setup, but is such a high default efficiency really a good idea? I would have expected new BIABers to be getting in the 70's. Won't this higher default efficiency hurt, rather than help, first-timers? (If you are an experienced BIABer, then you probably know your efficiency and can adjust the spreadsheet accordingly.)
I also noticed that the default efficiency changes with the boil time, with the grain bill going up as boil time goes down. I assume that this is because BIABacus assumes that the extraction efficiency goes down as the mash water volume goes down.
If this last assumption is true, then the accompanying write-up will have to explain how to adjust the parameters in Section X. Let's say that I average a 78% efficiency when mashing for a 90-minute boil. I can set a fixed efficiency of 78%, but then that efficiency will be used for the lower volumes associated with a 60-minute boil, as well. How can I instead set the "Adjust Auto-Efficiency by" value so that I get a 78% efficiency for the 90-minute boil volumes and have this same adjustment be used for a 60-minute boil? The only thing I can come up with is to play with the fixed efficiency until I get the grain bill to match the auto-efficiency grain bill, then subtract that efficiency from my average (78% in this case) to come up with the adjustment to use.
Dave, a bette thread for this might be Advanced BIABacus Pre-Release Questions
. Who knows?
I'm not sure what the right place is. You are sort of asking the right questions and the wrong questions. What I think is best is if I ask you to be more specific. In other words, what is it that the BIABacus isn't giving you? You said you had to set the efficiency to 83.14 to get the grain bill to match. Well, I'm not sure where to begin with that. Is your kettle exactly the same as that in the original recipe? Is your EOBV-A exactly the same as the original recipe? Lots more questions.
You mention, is such a high default efficiency really a good idea?
. Well, there are lots of things to consider here Dave and some of them are new things that you won't be aware of.
But!!! I know you were or should have been aware at one stage of the difference between EIK and EIF. That might need some revision by you because until you let us know if you are talking about 'Efficiency into the Kettle' of 'Efficiency into the Fermentor' we can be up to 40% out of agreement
So, that's the first thing to study - EIK versus EIF.
EIK is the intelligent efficiency figure to focus on and the default used by the BIABacus is actually a bit low, not high.
Finally, your last paragraph ignores one of the best and biggest breakthroughs of the BIABacus. All other programs force the brewer to literally, 'make up,' an imaginary efficiency figure. The brewer puts in an efficiency figure (which they don't even know is EIK or EIF) and then, the program tells that brwer that they will get exactly that efficiency no matter whether they are brewing a light beer or a an imperial stout!
So Dave, that is the biggest myth we have been busting while you have been away. Efficiency into kettle is a variable, it is not a constant.
In other words, if you are educated right, you will only ever 'set' the BIABacus, auto-efficiency figure to a fixed figure if you have the advanced skills to investigate a recipe.
And, that is another thing that may have happened here since you were here last. We now have the confidence to say that almost any brewing recipe you see published on the internet will lack integrity and probably can't be copied. If you doubt that claim, post a recipe up here
and we'll prove why.
So, good questions but also lots of stuff to think on.
"what is it that the BIABacus isn't giving you?" If forced to answer that question, then I would have to say that BIABacus is not giving me enough information to understand how I can intelligently use the "Adjust Auto-Efficiency by ___%" feature in Section X.
The rest of this discussion really pertains to me trying to figure out what auto-efficiency BIABacus used for this recipe.
"Is your kettle exactly the same as that in the original recipe? Is your EOBV-A exactly the same as the original recipe?"
Well, the input specified a grain bill and an OG. To derive a specific OG from a specific grain bill, the only thing you can vary is the volume and the efficiency of getting sugars out of the grains and into that volume. Exactly which efficiency depends on which volume you are talking about.
What I did is determine (via trial and error) that I had to set the efficiency made available to me in Section X to 83.14% to get the grain bill to match the original grain bill, while matching the original OG and matching the original EOBV-A that was claimed in Section D. Thus, I determined that for this recipe only
, BIABacus seemed to be using an efficiency of 83.14%. Again, I cannot tell which efficiency that is because it is unstated in Section X.
Perhaps that is actually a reasonable efficiency. I do not know because I do not know which efficiency I was setting in Section X.
"EIK is the intelligent efficiency figure to focus on and the default used by the BIABacus is actually a bit low, not high." Is that default something that brewers with years of experience hit or one that we expect a new brewer to hit the first or second time out of the gate?
The BIABacus efficiency taking into account the size of the grain bill is brilliant.
I do not know if I am talking talking about 'Efficiency into the Kettle' of 'Efficiency into the Fermentor'. I am playing around in Section X, which only says
"Adjust Auto-Efficiency by ___% or set it to ___%"
That section is not specific about which efficiency the user is adjusting/setting. I was simply trying to get the same results out of the BIABacus with a fixed efficiency that I got out of the auto-efficiency.
Although I can agree with you about "you will only ever 'set' the BIABacus, auto-efficiency figure to a fixed figure if you have the advanced skills to investigate a recipe", guidance is still needed on how to use the "Adjust Auto-Efficiency" field.
Re "almost any brewing recipe you see published on the internet will lack integrity and probably can't be copied", I was using the recipe as posted at the beginning of the "BIABacus Pre-Release - Your First Impressions" thread. I was not trying to convert a recipe on my own. I thought that would make things simpler. I guess it didn't.
I'll have to chew on your other points. Much food for thought.