Hey All,
I'm trying to work out color calculations and I'm running into a problem. So far I'm using Morey's calculation {SRM=1.49[(MCU)^.69]}. To calculate my MCUs I'm doing {(grain weight (lbs)*Lovibond of grain)/Volume (gal)}. Does this formula estimate final beer color, or the color going into the boil pot. The boil pot should contribute some color through Maillard reactions and the caramelization of some sugars. Finally to make the question really fun, how does post boil dilution effect final color? Here's an example of what I'm asking:
Grain bill:
144 oz 2 row pale malt (2 Lovibond)
2 oz Black patent malt (500 Lovibond)
16 oz chocolate malt (350 Lovibond)
16 oz Crystal malt (60 Lovibond)
4 oz Carapils (1.5 Lovibond)
Volume after mash (In a 5 gal kettle): 4.3 gal
So with 75% efficiency I would get a post mash volume of 4.3 gal with a SG of 1.071 and a color of 53 SRM. If I did a 90 min boil I would loose 1.2 gal (30 cm diameter) over the course of the boil. The resulting SG would be 1.099 in 3.1 gal. Does color follow the same concentration change as the sugars? Would the new color be 74 SRM = [(4.3*53)/3.1]?
Now for the post boil dilution. 3.1 gal of 1.099 wort to 5 gallons of wort at 1.061 SG. If color dilutes like the sugars do, the final color would be 45 SRM = (3.1*74)/5?
Are these assumptions correct, or is Morey's color equation independent of the boil? I've been searching the internet and have had no luck so far on finding an answer. Any help on this one would be greatly appreciated.
CSchenk
Post #2 made 15 years ago
Good questions CShenk, really getting out of my league, I'm afraid. I don't get that worked up about colour to be honest as I feel it is largely cosmetic and indicative of the presence (or absence) of certain malts which should contribute to the flavour.
However, I'd suggest Morey's calcs apply to colour into the kettle- there's no way it can account for all of the different boil parameters, eg. length, rate (hard/ gentle), caramelisation, the distribution of heat may even have some influence through hot spots etc.
Apropos dilution, I would expect it is a straight concentration effect and could br treated the same as SG, however there would be limits to that, the likes of which we shouldn't experience with beer.
Hope this helps, also praying I'm not speaking out my bum!
However, I'd suggest Morey's calcs apply to colour into the kettle- there's no way it can account for all of the different boil parameters, eg. length, rate (hard/ gentle), caramelisation, the distribution of heat may even have some influence through hot spots etc.
Apropos dilution, I would expect it is a straight concentration effect and could br treated the same as SG, however there would be limits to that, the likes of which we shouldn't experience with beer.
Hope this helps, also praying I'm not speaking out my bum!
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #3 made 15 years ago
Sorry you haven't been able to get an answer so far CShenk. It's an interesting question and one that I and the other staff here have never seen posed, let alone answered before. All we can do is move your topic to the, "Old Hands," section to give it a bit of a bump. We hope this helps.
Nuff
Nuff
Post #4 made 15 years ago
Thanks Nuff,
I'm currently making plans to test this. I work at bio lab and I'm trying to figure out if I can use the spectrometer. If I can I can calculate the actual SRM value. I'll keep you all posted.
I'm currently making plans to test this. I work at bio lab and I'm trying to figure out if I can use the spectrometer. If I can I can calculate the actual SRM value. I'll keep you all posted.
Post #5 made 15 years ago
That would be really interesting CShenk. Hope you can get the access. We might end up bumping the thread back to the BIABrewer.info Research forum 
.
.
Last edited by Nuff on 08 Jan 2011, 19:20, edited 5 times in total.
Post #6 made 14 years ago
Okay I got permission to use the equipment to check out my beer color! I'm going to brew a porter this weekend, so it should be a good test for color. The grain bill is as follows
120 oz 2 row pale ale malt (3Lovibond)
16 oz Munich Malt (10 Lovibond)
12 oz Chocolate malt (350 Lovibond)
8 oz Crystal 60 (60 Lovibond)
1 oz black patent malt (500 Lovibond)
So going off of my calculator, my expected color after mashing will be 46.8 Lovibond in approx 15L of wort. After the boil, the calculated color is 66.6 Lovibond in approx 10 L. Finally when I dilute it to 19L, the color should be 37.0 Lovibond. I've attached my excel spread sheet if you want to see it.
I plan on taking samples after mashing, after the boil, and after dilution. I will then analyze them next week, when the machine is done. I also plan on taking a sample when I bottle and from a bottle, post conditioning.
The porter should be interesting because it might require in lab dilution to correctly measure it. I also plan on doing the same experiment, nest time I make an ESB.
I'll keep you all posted and type up a formal protocol for when I post my results.
CS
120 oz 2 row pale ale malt (3Lovibond)
16 oz Munich Malt (10 Lovibond)
12 oz Chocolate malt (350 Lovibond)
8 oz Crystal 60 (60 Lovibond)
1 oz black patent malt (500 Lovibond)
So going off of my calculator, my expected color after mashing will be 46.8 Lovibond in approx 15L of wort. After the boil, the calculated color is 66.6 Lovibond in approx 10 L. Finally when I dilute it to 19L, the color should be 37.0 Lovibond. I've attached my excel spread sheet if you want to see it.
I plan on taking samples after mashing, after the boil, and after dilution. I will then analyze them next week, when the machine is done. I also plan on taking a sample when I bottle and from a bottle, post conditioning.
The porter should be interesting because it might require in lab dilution to correctly measure it. I also plan on doing the same experiment, nest time I make an ESB.
I'll keep you all posted and type up a formal protocol for when I post my results.
CS
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
That's great Shenk and can't wait to hear how it goes! Hopefully they'll let you borrow the machine a few times so as you can test the consistency.
Thanks for the update
,
PP
Thanks for the update
,PP
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