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Kettles: a newbie's naive questions

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Hi guys. I'm about to take the leap of faith into BIAB having been a strictly kit brewer for a few years. I want more control over the flavourings of my beers and am a huge fan of rich porters and stouts.

I do, however, have some rookie questions:


Kettle I know there's a few variations on a theme here; I like the idea of having a coolbox converted into a mash tun but am confused as to what it *does*. Is it a place for the malt to have boiling water poured all over it and left to rest for 90 mins before draining back into a pot for boiling?

I like the idea of a pot with a tap on it, but then I'm confused about a lot of the processes involved which probably doesn't help me make an informed decision.


Malt and hops and yeast Because I've been mollycoddled by my kit brews I am terrified at the idea of having *gasp* fresh ingredients that I could potentially waste/ use incorrectly. I suppose I'm also worried about the expense of buying them from my LHBS in comparison to the reasonably guaranteed beer from kits.



Anyway: sorry for going on, I'm just looking down a precipice of potential homebrewing becoming more than just a weekend hobby and turning into an obsession. Just about to move in with my girlfriend and am scared of throwing myself into a hobby/vocation that I will be splurging cash on.

Reassurance and virtual beers, please.

Cheers,

Joe :)
Last edited by Joeyriles on 12 Jun 2014, 17:26, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 11 years ago
by JackRussel
Kettle vs cooler Mash Tun. They can both accomplish the same thing basically. Giving your grains a place to have their goodness extracted. You can't really get much simpler than a kettle and a bag. If your current kettle is large enough to handle the brews you expect out of it, then making or buying a bag will be your easiest and cheapest solution. If your current kettle is large enough for the boil, but not the mash, then it might be worthwhile to look at alternatives. Like if you already have a suitable cooler to use and your kettle will only handle the boil, you could do your mash in the cooler, then transfer the bag to the kettle for a mash out. Then combine the two for the boil.

Buying grain is much cheaper than buying extract, especially if you have somewhere local to pick up your base malts. I use airtight pet food containers to store them, but a lot of brewers use buckets and gamma seal lids. Hops will last a long time in the freezer, preferably a NON frost-free freezer to avoid the defrost cycle.

How big is your current kettle?
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
by Adman1966
Hi Joe

In relation to your concerns about splurging lots of money, it's true, you can spend lots of money on this hobby but you don't have to if you exercise some restraint as you find out about the various bits of equipment available to home brewers.

For BIAB all you need is a kettle and a bag. You already have the equipment needed to ferment the wort from brewing kits. The bag can simply be a square of voile (net curtain) which you can pick up for less than a fiver. The kettle could be a large stockpot boiled on your cooker or as many use, myself included, a large tea urn. The 40l Buffalo boiler is popular but does cost around £100 new. Ebay is your friend here but you may need to be patient. If you go this route don't modify taps etc. until you are sure you are going to stick with brewing. It's easier to sell them as originally supplied.

In terms of cost of ingredients, if you start with simple recipes you can get everything you need for no more than the cost of a mid-ranged kit and possibly cheaper. Worcester Hop Shop and The Malt Miller are 2 internet sites worth looking at for pretty much everything you may need.

One thing to remember is that if you plan your brew day and know what you should be doing and when you should be doing it you will make wort. Add yeast and this will become beer. It is likely to be the best beer you have brewed and then you will be hooked!

Good luck and let us know how you get on. :luck:
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Post #4 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Joe, have a read of The Commentary and watch the video at the bottom of this page.

I wouldn't consider a cooler as, even if your kettle is small the only real volume you can gain with a cooler is the amount of space the grain bill takes up which is relatively small (unless you are doing a monster beer). As the guys mentioned, the first question is what kettle size do you have now. If it is small and you want to go bigger, read here.

A syphon can actually involve less work and time than a kettle on your tap so think carefully before adding one. Also see here.

Finally, some home brew shops will allow you to order just the grain and hops you need for your brew which is ideal. It is not a great idea to be buying grain mills when starting out, if ever. So, hopefully some UK guys know some shops that do that.

Making all-grain beer is actually pretty simple. Before you order ingredients etc make sure you have your plan checked over here and we'll make sure you are on the right track.

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 13 Jun 2014, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Thank you, guys.

I'm still undecided about kettles: seen a 15l stockpot with tap and hop strainer for £60 on the malt miller but wasn't sure if I could technically make it cheaper myself (even though I have no DIY skills.)

Also: I'm unsure of how to make the bag/ how big to make it. It's a shame nobody lives in my area so I could potentially have a tutorial, with tuition fees being paid in ale.

Thanks for the other helpful advice, though. I've got my mind set on making an Oakham Ales Citra clone; any idea what hops I'd need?

Joe

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
A 15 litre stockpot is too small joey. 19 litre pots are problem enough. And, you definitely don't need a tap or strainer.

Would love to see the link on who is trying to sell these 15 litre kettles with taps and strainers. That is just wrong. (What will these bastards think of next to sell to the poor unsuspecting new brewer???)

Is there something obvious I have missed here or is selling 15 litre pots just totally wrong?
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
by goulaigan
Selling 15L pots is perfectly fine PP, just not for brewing lol. I wish I had got a 80L instead of my 60L hah. Definitely take PP's advice, go bigger, as big as you can heat!
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
Get the biggest pot you can heat/afford. It won't be long until you are wishing you had bought bigger. Start with a plain pot and you can add to it later if you really need to.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
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Post #11 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
Joey, you'll have to write a bit of background on your situations as there are som amny variables. For example, even if you are happy with 'half' batches, many stovetops still battle to even get a strong enough boil going with a 19 litre pot which will give you around 10 lites of normal strenght beer.

Above that you need to look at buying not only a larger kettle/pot but a also a heat source. 40 L (10.5 Gallon) Electric urns combine the two and can handle single batches of normal strength brews adequately. Gas systems usually require a gas barbecue bottle, high pressure regulator, and a burner. Depending on what you get, they will easily handle even double batches.

Other factors come into play such as if you want to brew inside. Brewing creates a lot of steam so indoor brewing might not be a great idea. Do you have a garage? Do you live in a hot or cold climate?

Are you a billionaire or a struggling student? (What's your initial budget?)

All these things need to be asked before you can get an answer tht will probably work for your situation.

:peace:
PP
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Post #12 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Cheers, Pistol.

I'm a teacher so I am not exactly awash with dosh. I like the idea of doing small batches to start off until I get good and then I might consider saving up for something bigger.

Stove-top will do for now, and I live in sunny England so I'll most likely be indoors most days.

As I understand it I will need:

A stockpot (how big?)

A bag (worth paying for one pre-made?)


I already have all my fermenting equipment and siphons etc so not worried about that. Just want to get it up and running!



Joe

Post #13 made 11 years ago
by mally
IMHO you would be OK with a 15L stock pot to do small batches (see last paragraph as well). However, as has been pointed out, you will soon grow out of this and wonder why you ever bought it!

For the cheapest & quickest way; just get a pot size that is at least TWICE the size of the amount of beer you want to drink out of the recipe you are doing.
Then buy enough voile (polyester, swiss, shear drapery etc, 30-40 threads per cm) so that it can wrap around the oustide of your pot and fold inwards to the centre. Many people have success just bunching up the "loose" ends and pulling out after mash, so there is no real need at the moment for you to get a custom bag to fit a pot that you will soon grow out of.

Doing the above will be quick, cheap, and at least allow you to develop your technique, see if you enjoy the process (hobby), and if so allow you then to make an informed decision on your next purchasing steps.

Smaller volumes are much harder to do than "normal" size. Measurements are much more critical and temmperatures fluctuate more.
If you can make good beer with the above, then you will have no trouble when/if you decide to "go large".
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #14 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Brilliant, thanks Mally et al. Where would you UK brewers buy said pots? I'm the kind of numpty that ends up paying through the nose for stuff because I'm not very canny with online stuff, despite my tender years.

Post #15 made 11 years ago
by mally
Joeyriles wrote:Where would you UK brewers buy said pots?
Not sure on this Joey, maybe some other UK brewers have good advice on pots (I have an electric urn). I would guess Ebay is your best option, though if you have a nearby good homebrew store it could be cheaper to pick one up direct and avoid shipping costs etc.
Last edited by mally on 20 Jun 2014, 19:28, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #17 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Found a 20l pot (stainless steel) on Amazon. Took the plunge and am awaiting delivery as we speak.

Now: for my first batch I would like an idiot-proof recipe (and cheapish).

Any ideas?

Thanks for all the help so far!

Post #18 made 11 years ago
by goulaigan
The All Amarillo APA that can be downloaded pre-filled out in the BIABacus is a great recipe that many people start with (me included), and I believe it is very forgiving. It also makes awesome beer! (I think I substitued the base malt for Marris Otter when I did it which ended up delicious)
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Post #19 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Woohoo! Thank you. I'll look this up and give it a go.

I'm in the process of trying to create an immersion wort chiller; not a necessary bit of kit I understand but I like the thought of having one. Where would you folks recommend buying a cheap, but decent, thermometer?

Post #20 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
Joeyriles,
Where would you folks recommend buying a cheap, but decent, thermometer?
The trick is too have more than one thermometer. You can have a cheap digital one but accuracy will always be an issue. Save up and buy a decent one or two. I regularly use a dial type, digital, and a prob built into my pot. I also have a infrared gun so not to touch cooled wort. I pretty much average them and mostly use the closest to the average.

The question that you asked is where to buy them? I have know idea where I did except this one.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/larg ... probe.html

I like the 9 inch probe that will get deep into the mash. My digital only measures the top 3 inches?
Last edited by BobBrews on 25 Jun 2014, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #21 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Cheers, Bob.

I'll look into it; a mate of mine has the infrared one as he has two little kids who are frequently suffering from the sniffles and he takes their temperature through their ear.

Post #22 made 11 years ago
by mally
Joey - Ignore Bob, he doesn't even know what a thermometer is!! :shock: (only kidding Bob)

Have a read of this here too.
Last edited by mally on 25 Jun 2014, 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #23 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
Mally,

I know what a thermometer is. It's that thing I use to measure pH? right?
Good link to point too.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #24 made 11 years ago
by cwier60
Joeyriles wrote:Where would you folks recommend buying a cheap, but decent, thermometer?
I know you're in the UK, so your purchasing channels differ, but I have been very happy with this ThermoWorks RT600C Super-fast Water-resistant Digital Pocket Thermometer. This and several other thermometer options are shown on the Homebrew Finds Top Finds page. For those of you not aware, this site is an excellent resource for homebrew bargains (at least for those of us in the US).
Last edited by cwier60 on 26 Jun 2014, 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #25 made 11 years ago
by Joeyriles
Cheers fellas, my pot arrived today in all its shiny glory! :-D

Obviously it isn't the biggest (20l) but it will do to get started with to see if I can hack the all grain trail.

The APA recipe looks good but I'm tempted to make my first batch a porter; it's my favourite style of beer.

For a little pot like this I would estimate I stand to make only around 10 litres of beer when all evaporation/trub losses are taken into account? I'd probably choose to bottle them all as I love having them stored up for those dark, cold winters.
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