i've brewed a couple of cap (classic american pilsner) with 75/25 pale and polenta. most likely the most appraised beers i've ever made.
dry, but still with a sweet aftertaste, asking for another sip.
anyway.
i hate cereal mashing and since i cannot get a hold of flaked mais or rice here in iceland, i've not bothered with that kind of beers but on special occations.
in cereal mashing, u mix the adjunct and malt in 2:1 to 3:1, give it a sacc rest and then boil it. but why. the malt is to make it less sticky, and the boil is to gelatinize it.
i was wondering. what if i just add the polenta to my biab system and let it mash for several hours at 70°. then just stir in the main mash and continue as normal. wouldn't the longer mash take care of the gelatinization.
i have a controlled system using pid. so i could add the polenta to the pot in the morning when i go to work, it would get good 8 hours at 70°, then when i get back i would dough in the rest of the malt. thus, it would take me the same time as a normal beer.
some discussion on this here: http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtop ... =5&t=79214
Post #2 made 14 years ago
Good Day kristfin, Here in America it is common to gelatize corn/polenta at 75C/172F until the mash gets thick (3-4 hours), and then let it cool to 64C/145F and add the Barley, and mash as usual. This process works well for crushed rice also.
You can Gelatize with 1/2 the mash water, and add the 2nd half when you get home to bring the mash to the correct temperaure. This allows lower mash temperatures for other rests, if needed.
You can Gelatize with 1/2 the mash water, and add the 2nd half when you get home to bring the mash to the correct temperaure. This allows lower mash temperatures for other rests, if needed.
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
I used Corn flakes (breakfast cereal) in a brew that needed flaked maize. It turned out great and was fortified with extra vitamins and mineralskristfin wrote: i cannot get a hold of flaked mais
Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 27 Oct 2011, 16:54, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #4 made 14 years ago
Good Day Yeasty, Some Do use corn flakes, and the beer has a toasted corn flavor, much Different from grits/polenta.
To each his own, I guess.
To each his own, I guess.
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Post #5 made 14 years ago
True Truejoshua wrote:Good Day Yeasty, Some Do use corn flakes, and the beer has a toasted corn flavor, much Different from grits/polenta.
To each his own, I guess.
It was a bitter recipe so perhaps not suitable for a pilsner and not quiet what kristfin was after, 
but hey whats wrong with toasty pilsner you could have it for breakfast. Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 27 Oct 2011, 17:22, edited 5 times in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #6 made 14 years ago
I know absolutely nothing on this subject 
but...
I noticed one bit, "the malt is to make it less sticky." Because BIAB is full-volume brewing, would this 'less sticky' bit become unnecessary?
but...I noticed one bit, "the malt is to make it less sticky." Because BIAB is full-volume brewing, would this 'less sticky' bit become unnecessary?
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
thanks guys,
never any shortage on sensible answers here.
i'm going to test a 2-3 hour polenta mash at 70° prior to the main mash and see how it goes.
i'm under a lot of pressure to create some "light" beers. gonna try this with polenta and rice. although i can get flaked rice here in iceland.
i'm gonna try corn flakes sometime. but i think that it is way different from flaked mais, but it will mash and give sugars -- like most moonshiners can attest to
never any shortage on sensible answers here.
i'm going to test a 2-3 hour polenta mash at 70° prior to the main mash and see how it goes.
i'm under a lot of pressure to create some "light" beers. gonna try this with polenta and rice. although i can get flaked rice here in iceland.
i'm gonna try corn flakes sometime. but i think that it is way different from flaked mais, but it will mash and give sugars -- like most moonshiners can attest to
Post #8 made 14 years ago
Good Day Kristfin, For a really "light" beer, we use 30% rice, no corn, and still need to 70C mash. Of Course, if you are in a hurry...Flacked rice does work well!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #9 made 14 years ago
kristfin, I use "instant rice" or "minute rice" in my cream ales all the time, no need for a cereal mash. It's just like substituting "instant oats" for flaked oats in a recipe. I am assuming you can get instant rice at the grocery store, correct?
---Todd
---Todd
WWBBD?
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
Good Day, THughes is correct, crush the Minute rice and your ready to go. I forgot to say earlier for a very LITE beer, you ca use "6 row" Barley and rice at 50%/50% and get a malty very LITE beer, with few off flavors, when you mash for 75 minutes, And boil for 72 minutes. It works nicely in America. Hop the way you like!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #11 made 14 years ago
what would happen if i forgot and ended up boiling for 73 minutes?joshua wrote:Good Day, THughes is correct, crush the Minute rice and your ready to go. I forgot to say earlier for a very LITE beer, you ca use "6 row" Barley and rice at 50%/50% and get a malty very LITE beer, with few off flavors, when you mash for 75 minutes, And boil for 72 minutes. It works nicely in America. Hop the way you like!
Last edited by shibolet on 28 Oct 2011, 01:14, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #12 made 14 years ago
Complete disaster, don't do it!shibolet wrote:what would happen if i forgot and ended up boiling for 73 minutes?joshua wrote:Good Day, THughes is correct, crush the Minute rice and your ready to go. I forgot to say earlier for a very LITE beer, you ca use "6 row" Barley and rice at 50%/50% and get a malty very LITE beer, with few off flavors, when you mash for 75 minutes, And boil for 72 minutes. It works nicely in America. Hop the way you like!
Last edited by thughes on 28 Oct 2011, 02:11, edited 5 times in total.
WWBBD?
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Post #13 made 14 years ago
Good Day, a short boil with Corn/Polenta gives that bad flavor of DMS, but it will be gone by 60 minutes or bit more!! If you learn the oder, you can stop the boil when it disappears!
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Post #14 made 14 years ago
Mark from Mark's home brew shop in Newcastle, Australia was discussing cereal mashing with me a few months ago when I was down that way. Mark knows every mashing enzyme and what they do (I think there are over 20 of them 
). He says that if you boil the polenta or rice till it's gelatinised, the starch is still in the form of granules at a microscopic level.
If you cool the boiled mush down and add the malted grain at around 40C then gradually warm it up while heating up to the normal mash temperature, there is an enzyme in that temperature range that will dissolve the "capsules" around the granules and make the starch more available to the enzymes.
So, for example, if I was using 4kg of malt and 1kg of polenta, I'd boil the polenta to a mush, let it cool right down, add 1kg of the malt and heat up to 72 degrees in the stockpot, then after a short rest add the slurry to the main mash (the 3kg malt remaining) and go from there. There are mixing calculators online so you can easily hit your required 66 degrees or whatever.
). He says that if you boil the polenta or rice till it's gelatinised, the starch is still in the form of granules at a microscopic level. If you cool the boiled mush down and add the malted grain at around 40C then gradually warm it up while heating up to the normal mash temperature, there is an enzyme in that temperature range that will dissolve the "capsules" around the granules and make the starch more available to the enzymes.
So, for example, if I was using 4kg of malt and 1kg of polenta, I'd boil the polenta to a mush, let it cool right down, add 1kg of the malt and heat up to 72 degrees in the stockpot, then after a short rest add the slurry to the main mash (the 3kg malt remaining) and go from there. There are mixing calculators online so you can easily hit your required 66 degrees or whatever.
Post #15 made 14 years ago
but why?Beachbum wrote:Mark from Mark's home brew shop in Newcastle, Australia was discussing cereal mashing with me a few months ago when I was down that way. Mark knows every mashing enzyme and what they do (I think there are over 20 of them
If you cool the boiled mush down and add the malted grain at around 40C then gradually warm it up while heating up to the normal mash temperature, there is an enzyme in that temperature range that will dissolve the "capsules" around the granules and make the starch more available to the enzymes.
So, for example, if I was using 4kg of malt and 1kg of polenta, I'd boil the polenta to a mush, let it cool right down, add 1kg of the malt and heat up to 72 degrees in the stockpot, then after a short rest add the slurry to the main mash (the 3kg malt remaining) and go from there. There are mixing calculators online so you can easily hit your required 66 degrees or whatever.
i don't understand why anyone would do this if u don't need to do it. there are so many things in life one could select as a fetish -- boiling corn is not one.
Last edited by kristfin on 29 Oct 2011, 19:52, edited 5 times in total.
Post #16 made 14 years ago
Good Day kristfin, I think Beachbum is talking about beta-glucanases, see..http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html
Un-malted,un-modified grains need this step/rest to use all the starch.
Un-malted,un-modified grains need this step/rest to use all the starch.
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Post #17 made 14 years ago
Boiling corn.. mmmmmm....... 
Well it's no stranger than people who restore old Chevrolets or collect sets of souvenir spoons
Well it's no stranger than people who restore old Chevrolets or collect sets of souvenir spoons
Post #18 made 14 years ago
Don't forget the people from the southern USA ten do have an affinity to boiled corn. 
AWOL
Post #19 made 14 years ago
Good Day, Boiled Corn in the Southern U.S.???? Boiled, fried, baked, brewed, AND Distilled. We make it, we use it!!!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #20 made 14 years ago
----- and don't forget popped! (Maybe that's just a Yankee thingjoshua wrote:Good Day, Boiled Corn in the Southern U.S.???? Boiled, fried, baked, brewed, AND Distilled. We make it, we use it!!!
)
Last edited by Ziggybrew on 10 Nov 2011, 08:21, edited 5 times in total.
Post #21 made 14 years ago
Good Day, Popped?? must be a Really Northern Thing, or a Southwestern thing, Or an Orville Redenbacher Thing. I Brew it, Popping Beer.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #22 made 14 years ago
Mmmm pop corn
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Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #23 made 14 years ago
Mmmmm Beer. (Homer Simpson)
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Post #24 made 14 years ago
As it happens, at the last Brisbane Amateur Beer Brewers meeting I tried a Classic American Pilsner from a guy Nick Barnes (NickB on the Aussie home brewer forum) made with popcorn as an adjunct. It was great - clean, crisp and erm .... corny. He just uses his home hot air corn popper machine that's fairly cheap from the $2 stores here.
Nick is a HERMS brewer but it would translate to BIAB perfectly. I've also used cornflakes but they contain a fair amount of salt which becomes noticeable if you use more than just a 500g box.
Nick is a HERMS brewer but it would translate to BIAB perfectly. I've also used cornflakes but they contain a fair amount of salt which becomes noticeable if you use more than just a 500g box.
