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Multiple dispensing taps or one tap and a manifold?

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
iijakii's thread here got me thinking on this.

I remember when I started kegging, I thought that two taps would be heaps! I now have the ability to serve 7 different beers. I live in an apartment so what happened there? :o

LOL!

For my dispensing fridge, I have an upright freezer (just like an upright fridge) with a temperature controller that keeps the kegs at dispensing temperature.

I also have only one tap - not seven!

All kegs are connected to this one tap so every beer I pour, whether it be a lager or an ale comes through this one tap. Seven taps sticking out of an upright fridge/freezer is not a great idea :interesting:. Seven beers from one tap is also not a great idea!

Anyway, to get all my beers pouring from the one tap, I use a manifold system - a stainless steel tube with valves attached. (I'll post a pic when I get a chance.) So to change beers, I close one ball-valve and open another.

This is fine but like anything that involves equipment, there are positives, negatives and some unknowns. I won't list them because...

I am not comfortable with this set-up but I am no more uncomfortable with this than I would be with a multiple tap set-up.

Does anyone have some good ideas on this?
:smoke:
PP
:scratch:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 26 Feb 2011, 20:33, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #2 made 14 years ago
by iijakii
I think that'd be extremely inconvenient to have only one tap.

I agree, though, that seven taps would be a bit cluttered and messy looking. Maybe you could put a total of 3 or 4 taps and go with 3 smaller manifolds/T? That would bring a lot more functionality. But I'm sure you've already thought of this.

Post #3 made 14 years ago
by shibolet
PP,
i don't have any good insight on your set up, but i would really like to see pics. please post some.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #4 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Where is your manifold PP? It would make sense if it was outside the freezer where you could change beers easily with minimal loss, but if it was on the inside I think it would be a PITA!
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #5 made 14 years ago
by stux
I heard you had all your beery buddies mix your beers in the kegs ;)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #6 made 14 years ago
by hashie
stux wrote:I heard you had all your beery buddies mix your beers in the kegs ;)
Wouldn't that be a bastard? You wouldn't invite them around again.
Last edited by hashie on 27 Feb 2011, 08:47, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #7 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Short on time today - lucky for you guys :lol: but...

Yep, my manifold is inside the fridge. It's not as inconvenient as it sounds unless you let other brewers near it :roll:. I did have a brew day here once and had 6 beers on tap. One was a beautiful kolsch and another, a great Schwartz that I was going to put into a comp. Someone managed to open both ball-valves so the kolsch gradually 'syphoned' itself into the Schwartz - lol!

Since then I have installed one-way valves but I seriously doubt that they will activate at such low pressure differences. Will try and dig up a past photo when I have time. Currently I have the manifold split apart for a thorough clean.

Thanks guys for thinking on this,
PP
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Post #8 made 14 years ago
by stux
I remember reading about that on AHB :)
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #9 made 14 years ago
by Ralph
One potential hassle with locating a manifold outside the fridge is that between pours it would heat up to room temp, meaning that any time a beer is required, it would have to cool much of that thermal mass down with beer before starting to serve at the desired temperature out of the tap. I'm envisaging a large solid metallic manifold though, so if its anything else, then perhaps its not a problem. Same goes though for other serving hardware I guess, probably one reason why mounting taps on a fridge became attractive, likewise the prevalence of wet fonts in bars.
Just my 2c FWIW, just this once I don't have the answer :whistle: and I'm not even a kegger :angry: , but that's something to consider in the grand scheme. :drink:
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]

Post #10 made 14 years ago
by Yeasty
Someone managed to open both ball-valves so the kolsch gradually 'syphoned' itself into the Schwartz -
Remove all handles from the valves and ditch them bar one. Drill a hole in this one and attach aloop of string. Place loop of string around neck and never take it off!! :shoot:
Last edited by Yeasty on 28 Feb 2011, 09:08, edited 5 times in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #11 made 14 years ago
by stux
My friends finally worked out why I said not to touch the inside f the keg fridge

"hmmm, all we need to do to get beer is reconnect the liquid lines!"

"it's not pouring right"

That's right as I had it at 300kpa to carbonate
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #12 made 14 years ago
by STAG
Hi PistolPatch
here`s an outline idea for the dispensing.

The Keg Shut Off, Rotary Valve also becomes the `Beer Tap`

1) Close the beer tap. (Rotate to a stop position)
2) Rotate the Selector Barrel to chose your brew ( The pointer can be aimed at your Beer`s Logo or `Pump clip` image. Not shown in assembly. )
3) Open Beer Tap and dispense the pint.
4) Close Beer Tap

The keg shut off valve operates like a ball valve.
The rotary selector barrel only exposes one thru line at a time. and is protected from leaking with `O` ring seals on the faces of the Inlet and Outlet Manifolds.

you could also add gimmicks like
a weenie whistle when a a real weak ale is dispensed, up to a rich sounding fog horn when a 10 % abv stout is `pulled`. hehehehehe that`ll wake em up.


Man that must be so nice to have so many ales on tap. :yum:

Let me add that the schematic shows a rotation of 30 degrees of the selector barrel between each brew inlet port.
8 x 30 deg - 240 degrees total. Less then a turn.
Although I bet by now he probably needs a 10 or 12 brew dispenser, the rate he brews :clap:
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STAG = Single Tun All Grain

Post #16 made 14 years ago
by BobBrews
Do you deliver to the U.S.? Do you have a left handed model? Keep the ideas coming!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #17 made 14 years ago
by STAG
hehe Bob

You`d have to stand at the back of the machine and keep shouting
- Tell me when it`s full - :lol:

no seriously thats a good suggestion -
*note to self* the beer tap rotary thingy can be assembled from either end.

Actually the finish product will probably look nothing like the schematic, once all these
types of good suggestions are used.
I`d love to knock up some prototypes but I`m not sure when I`ll get the time,
these guys I work for expect me to do their shit all the time, hey ? inconsiderate or what ! :dunno:

My material of choice would be an Acetal type plastic called Sustarin C which is a dream to machine,
is real stable and I`m pretty sure it`s food safe as well.

The Outlet nozzle arrangement -
What I`d like is all the feed tubes coming down inside a round sleeve ( Tap )
So that you`d be able to connect a hot water supply to the tap and back flush to clean.

Could you cornie users and pressurised dispenser users give me some idea of the tube sizes
you want the beer to flow thru. This will help design the connections needed to the fixed inlet manifold.
The easiest would be compression type fittings.

anyway must go. I need another beer. Bought bottled - Old Speckled Hen - my favourite.
I can`t wait to try brew some. But it`s projects like these that keep me from building my STAG.

cheers guys.

BTW I do deliver anywhere in the world.
I`d like to become accustomed to travelling first class, plz bear that in mind. :cool:
And you`d have to give me a note to give my work as to why I`ll be absent :party:
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Last edited by STAG on 03 Mar 2011, 02:44, edited 5 times in total.
STAG = Single Tun All Grain

Post #18 made 14 years ago
by stux
8mm OD 5mm ID compatible with John guest fittings

I'd suggest MFL connectors, then we could add JG adaptors or barbs etc

I use Valspar FlexMaster II tubing
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #19 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
Okay, I found some old pics of my manifold set-up but am not going to post them now because of STAG....

STAG, as soon as I saw your post and saw the picture I thought, "That's got to be STAG!" LOL! And, you have only made 8 posts!!!!

I truly love your thinking and designs but as far as I can see, no one has mentioned the several 'elephants' in the room with your or my design. There are a heap of problems with both of them.

If you are like me, you don't mind being informed of the pitfalls. The critical factor in this thread is how easily you can maintain equipment. In other words, the question is, "What is the convenience factor of my set-up versus the risks of infection?" This is the real question.

My manifold system has a heap of potential faults as does yours. Having 8 taps also has the same faults!

I honestly don't know the right answer and suspect that there isn't one but I suspect you will appreciate my honesty :think:

:peace:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Mar 2011, 00:48, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #20 made 14 years ago
by STAG
Yeah I like honesty . :salute:
Please feel free to knock lumps out of my ideas :shoot: . Hey lets even have some banter about it :headhit:
the working day is boring enough and hell knows we cant joke about beer related stuff with the missus. :nup:
cos they think we`re waisting money.
But also ( pun here) can you imagine all the pubs you drank at, had such a strict cleaning regime that was regularly adhered to. And all those pumps and pipes and fittings and barrels and drinking glasses were scrupulously clean. cos matey on minimum wage really loved his job. nope. but we all survived.

Pistolpatch please know I`m only joking around and I realise a newboy to the board must earn his respect.
I respect you guys. :salute:

Amyway back to the crux.
So I was thinking I could add an o ring sealed `channel` on all exterior facing parts. Within the channel we could add some alcohol or disinfectant the would keep all nasties out. After all it`s the oxygen that lets bacteria thrive.

Then I thought, hang on a sec. dump the whole idea because what you need is a `pinch valve` on each brew outlet.
A thin rubber hose direct from the cornie to the pouring spout, no breaks or joins or anything.
The `Pinch` can be a manual eccentric type barrel operated with a small lever, or a more sophistcated electric solenoid pinch valve. Push the Pump clip logo and pour the pint.
The pic shows a solenoid valve literally strangling shut a flexible hose. If the pinch is applied as close as possible to the outlet the better.
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STAG = Single Tun All Grain

Post #21 made 14 years ago
by hashie
The pinch valve idea is a good one. Silicone hose would be ideal for that application.

For a multi tap set up, would it work best with a revolving cam instead of multiple solenoids? Especially for the home brewer. Solenoids would be better for commercial use.

With a cam, you would only need one machined for x taps, in fact it could be manufactured for, say, 8- 10 taps, yet work perfectly with only 2 or 3 attached?
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #24 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
STAG, no need to worry about your posts here. They are truly excellent reads :salute:.

I was amazed at the pinch valve idea. Never even heard of them. I'm imagining they remain closed with no current? In other words, if you had a power failure, everything would close? This is a very cool idea and would get rid of those bloody ball-valves and allow changing beers from the outside of the fridge :peace:.

I can't visualise hashie's cam idea so please draw it soon. Surely it can't get any better than the above :o. I think you guys are well on the way to coming up with a very novel and successful solution. You certainly have me excited :party:

Here are a few pics of my old manifold set-up. (Only one keg attached sorry but you'll get the idea.) My more recent system is totally different but the principle, advantages and disadvantages[/b] remain the same. A pinch valve system alone solves most of the disadvantages. Great stuff!
Manifold Front.jpg
Manifold Horizontal.jpg
Manifold with Closed Ball Valve and Quick Release Adaptor.jpg
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 06 Mar 2011, 19:55, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #25 made 14 years ago
by STAG
howdy patch.
Thats a good point about the solenoid remaining closed when power is off.

I have done a Mechanical version. What is not shown here is the top cover or the mounting
setup.
Another feature which I think would work out is to go the whole hog and put in place
a disinfecting system. At the bottom of the slotted disc.
So you`ll need a means of attaching the Silicone tube, I was thinking maybe just cutting 2 notches
on either side around the tube diameter and fitting a circlip to secure it in place.
You would thread the tubing thru the plunger area and let it protrude thru the bottom face of the slotted disc,
take a sharp knife and cut the tube end flush with the bottom face.
The whole thing could then rotate between brew stations and slide over the o ring seal on the face of the Sealing cap. The well in the sealing cap could hold some whisky or any strong alcohol, it wouldn`t evaporate because it is a sealed unit.
When your drinking session is over you could rotate the disc to a position in between the brew stations and this
would mean all tubing ends are contained within the well area, and therefore always sealed from the air.

I tried to load 2 animated gifs here but they came out all blotchy not sure why.
I have uploaded them here
http://www.zen104121.zen.co.uk/Pinch.gif
http://www.zen104121.zen.co.uk/Pinch2.gif
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