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Czech Pilsner / Decoction Mash vs Step Mash, Etc.

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by Scott
Been reading about a recipe calling for Decoction mash...sounds like a pain but want to make the best beer possible. Next up is probably Czech or Bohemian Pilsner again. (After 9 months).

Most European Pilsner malt is supposed to be well modified nowadays... So a simple mash at one temp should work fine. Saw a cool seeming recipe - maybe not for brewing next time, but sometime. http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3244- ... le-profile. Reminded me of other Czech brewing recipes. Often you hear really complicated mashing instructions and the proponents say it makes a big difference, even with well modified malt.

Step mash is really easy witth BIAB. But is this something to even do? Less work than decoction. Would it help? Definitely want to keep BIAB easy... Let me know if you have any experience or thoughts on this.

Thanks, Scott
Last edited by Scott on 01 Oct 2015, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by Scott
Maybe I should have put this under Mashing... Kind of fits there. But also kind of fits in recipe creation too. Trying to plan a new recipe / alter one, etc. maybe nobody has experience with this one...
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by Lemon
Hey Scott,
I have done the decoration mash for this style of beer. The decoction adds more than just temperature.
The decoction is boiled and adds the malliard reaction, of colour and flavour changes.
So, does it make a difference to the beer? Definitely
Is it worth the effort? Yesssssss.... For the benefit of a trial. Then you make up your mind.
Would/do I continue with a decoction mash? No. We can make a great Pilsner style with a step mash, or even an isothermal mash.
Lemon
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
by mally
Scott - I don't know what setup you have, but if you are electric and "direct fired" be careful of step mashing.
I used to have an urn type boiler, and that could cope with step mashes as the heater was concealed and therefore the hot plate dissipated the heat well.
I have since upgraded to elements that sit in the wort, and these will scorch the mash if it has any starch remaining (pre-60C).

If you are interested in what is happening have a look at this post here
Last edited by mally on 06 Oct 2015, 14:50, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
by Scott
Hey Mally,

Just read (and skimmed) your post link from above. Thanks for the warning.

Is this issue just an electric induction problem, or gas also? I use a large Bayou Classic propane burner with a Bayou Classic 15 gallon stainless steel brew pot. And I was planning on using the hochkurz plan to step mash next time. Do you foresee a problem with me doing this with gas? Would be easier pulling the bag off the bottom of the pot with a pulley, and then turning on the burner to raise heat, rather than boiling water and adding to the mash - to get heat added for my "steps" in the step mash. But the "latter" could be done if I really had to...or could just stick with traditional infusion mash at one temperature.

The traditional way of Decoction is pulling a third or so wort off and heating it, presumably with gas (???) so the warning must be an electric issue - maybe just induction electric issue. Let me know. And thanks again for the warning.

Scott
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
by mally
I have never used gas before Scott, but I haven't heard anybody mention problems so I guess it should be as good as my first electric kettle (if not better) as the heat is spread over a large area.

The scorching only seems to come about with electric elements that sit directly in the wort at sub-60C temps (prior to conversion). I think induction would be OK too as this method heats the whole base of the kettle.

Now, if I want to do step mashes I have to do a thick mash start and dilute with hot water to reach the next step (I have a calculator spreadsheet for that).
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #7 made 10 years ago
by Scott
Thanks Mally. Good education on this... I didn't know this issue existed.

Sounds like you occasionally do step mashes. Must be for Pilsners of German or Czech design, Do you find it improves the flavor of the final beer product vs a simple one temp mash?
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
by mally
I rarely do the same recipe twice, let alone side by sides, so I have no idea what difference the step mashes make.
I do it more out of curiosity/tradition/because I can!

..and, yes, only for pilsners.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #9 made 10 years ago
by Scott
Oh, thanks for your input Mally.

If I have things I like, I keep brewing them. But not afraid to try new versions of them, and also try new things (+ do testing, side by side, etc.). Not brewing a winning recipe again is like my wife having a great dinner meal and not making it again... Love to try new things but also love to have favorites again.
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