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Post #2 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
Stoutgirl5,

All-Grain - Hopinator
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WLP001
Yeast Starter: 4L
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.093
Final Gravity: 1.023
IBU: 266
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 12.1
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 38 @ 68f
Additional Fermentation: n/a
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 @ 38f
Tasting Notes: wow

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
14.50 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 76.32 %
2.00 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
0.75 lb Aromatic Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.95 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2.63 %
0.25 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 1.32 %

1.00 oz Warrior Pellet [15.40 %] (90 min) Mash Hop
1.00 oz Chinook Plug [14.30 %] (90 min) Mash Hop

1.00 oz Summit Pellet [18.10 %] (90 min) First Wort Hop
1.00 oz Warrior Pellet [15.40 %] (60 min)
1.00 oz Simcoe Plug [12.90 %] (30 min)
1.00 oz Summit Leaf [16.50 %] (30 min)
1.00 oz Green Bullet Leaf [13.20 %] (30 min)
1.00 oz Summit Leaf [16.50 %] (5 min)
1.00 oz Simcoe Plug [12.90 %] (5 min)
1.00 oz Green Bullet Leaf [13.20 %] (5 min)

1.00 items Servomyces (Boil 10.0 min)
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min)
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001)

2.00 oz Simcoe Plug [12.90 %] (Dry Hop 31 days)
1.00 oz Summit Pellet [18.10 %] (Dry Hop 31 days)
1.00 oz Green Bullet Leaf [13.20 %] (Dry Hop 31 days)
1.00 oz Simcoe Pellet [11.90 %] (Dry Hop 31 days)

Mashed w/1.33qt/lbs of water @ 170f to get my desired mash temp of 156f, hold for 60 minutes, then I did a heat mashout by raising the mash temp to 168f for 10 minutes.
Sparged with 3.87g of water @ 180f.

Started with 7.75g of pre-boil liquid and boiled it vigorously for 90 minutes. Chilled and pitched yeast, fermented at 68f.
After the initial first week of fermentation added my 5oz of dryhops.
Racked off the conical after 38th day of fermentation to a 5g corny keg, did a week of condition at 38f, filtered with a 1 micron filter, then set my PSI to 12.5 and continued to carbonate for a week.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #4 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
BrickBrewHaus,Stoutgirl5.

I should have said that I just copied this off the net and pasted it. I have know idea if this a worthwhile recipe? http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/hopinator-114292/ I don't think you can get more than 150 IBU's? Listen to this below from Basic Brewing Radio. Very interesting if your using lots of hops. This was a insane amount! Download the mp3 to listen on the way to work (or play)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 12, 2012 - Hop Bursting IBU Test
Home Brewer Kim Odland from Norway brewed a beer with an enormous amount of hops added at the end of the boil. Brad Sturgeon from Monmouth College puts it through his lab to look at its IBUs.

http://llnw.libsyn.com/p/c/b/6/cb6cb5bd ... c22b0f52eb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio Basic Brewing Radio
Last edited by BobBrews on 31 Jul 2012, 03:37, edited 3 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #5 made 13 years ago
by stoutgirl5
Thanks Bob,

It is an insanely bitter/ hoppy beer but its just so beautifully balanced with such a rich malty flavour.

I agree i think the hops in that recipe are a bit over kill (expensive too!)

Will have a listen to that mp3.

Bek

Post #6 made 13 years ago
by stoutgirl5
Ok so i haven't been able to find anything clones im happy with so i have decided to give it a go myself.

I hate numbers and im pretty sure they feel the same about me :shoot:

I just cant get my head around how to know how much, when, where and why. :idiot:

I've been reading quite a bit about hop bursting so thought i could give that ago but now my IBU's are way off.

Any advice/ help would be greatly appreciated as i'm completley brain dead :headhit:

http://www.arthompson.com.au/cake_beer/ ... /129#malts

Bek

Post #7 made 13 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
stoutgirl5 wrote:I've been reading quite a bit about hop bursting so thought i could give that ago but now my IBU's are way off.
To extract bitterness (and increase IBU) hops need to be boiled, the longer they're boiled the more bitterness is extracted. Hopbursting relies on adding hops late in the boil so they aren't boiled very long, therefore you're going to get fewer IBUs for the same weight of hops added.

So, to increase bitterness you can increase the amount of hops you're adding for those late additions. You'll probably have to double them at least. Or you can add another charge early in the boil to get your IBUs (won't technically be hopbursting at that point, but it will be cheaper).
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 05 Aug 2012, 19:12, edited 3 times in total.

Post #8 made 13 years ago
by stoutgirl5
Thanks BrickBrewHaus.

So why would people want to spend double the amount on bittering hops instead of just doing a 60 min addition? i thought it was to avoid losing flavour during the boil? But if you dont get full extraction, whats the point?

Bek

Post #9 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
stoutgirl5,

There are 3 main ways to add hop bitterness. First the bittering hops. They are added just as you are pulling the mash out (first wort hopping - FWH) or at the 60 minute mark. These hops lose all aromatics and just balance out the beer to compensate for the malt sweetness. No matter how many IBU's you put in for the bittering hops you cannot exceed 50 IBU's. So don't waste hops thinking that you will make a hop bomb with bittering hops. Also, the type of hops make very little or no difference (flavor) wise. So you can use almost any hop for bittering.

The second way to use hops is during the later stages of the boil. As in the last 15, 10, 5, flame out or 0. These are for aroma and lend little on no hop bitterness. Maybe the 15 minute will add some bitterness? Late additions may lose some aromas to the air?

The third and last use is in dry hopping. After all fermentation is done you may add aroma hops to the primary or secondary if you prefer. These are also aroma hops and none of the aroma's are lost to the air since the wort (beer now) is room temperature? The method of adding hops is a matter of preference or beer style.

I brewed two identical beers (I hope) the last two days. One wort I added the bittering hops and later I added the late aroma hops in the last 15, 10, 5, 0 minutes and after two weeks I will add 1 ounce dry hop. The other wort I added the bittering hops but I will add all the aroma hops plus the dry hop as "dry hops". The object is to have two exact beers with the same exact amount of hops. The only difference is when the hops were added. Late in the boil or dry hopped. How will they taste? Which will taste better or will they taste the same?
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #10 made 13 years ago
by stoutgirl5
Thanks BobBrews, lots of helpful info there!

I was just wondering whether you could get the bittering required from adding extra quantity at the 20 min addition. If you can would it be worth the extra cost of hops to get the added aroma and flavour you lose in the 60 min boil.

Be interested to see how your brews compare.

Bek

Post #11 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
stoutgirl5,

I am not sure about adding at the 20 min mark? I guess I would try a high alpha hop for bittering and maybe another at 20? I am not sure? This is one of the nebulous things about hopping. We are brewing with handed down knowledge and hopping is one of them. This is one reason I am starting to experiment with hops. I have been spouting off advice that is generic in nature and accepted "Facts" but has anyone even tried to re-test with modern (grains - hops - yeast)?? Listen too the radio link in the post above (#4) this is what we should be doing, actually trying and testing our beers? Good luck!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #12 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
Best advice post on hops ever Bob :thumbs:! Totally confirms what the best brewer I have ever heard talk on hops said. (Search my posts for "Little Creatures".) Basically this guy says that theories/formulas on hops are largely bs. He learns every variety and knows that for x variety you treat it with y method to get z desired result.

I don't think we home brewers need to have that level of knowledge. He does because he has to produce the same beer using different hops of different vintages and storage ages year in and year out. (For example, we can freeze our pellets whereas he can't.)

Just wrote on another massive hop formula anomaly here. It's just one of several we have discovered over the years.

The problem is Bek that as Bob says above, not enough experimenting is done. Your question, which I'll paraphrase to, "Is hop-bursting worth it?," I don't think can be answered yet. Has anyone done a side by side?

I think??? I've done one hopburst APA (not IPA) brew (although it included bittering hops as well) and it didn't strike me as overly impressive. I'd go for the Hop Hog recipe that AcesHigh gave me. Great balance and enjoyable.

One problem in the home brewing world literature is that new ideas have to be created or old ideas have to be revived to sell magazines etc, etc. While all that is good, personally I think there is enough we don't know about what we do know to keep us going for some time.

:lol:
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Aug 2012, 22:20, edited 3 times in total.
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Post #13 made 13 years ago
by housecat
stoutgirl5 wrote: I was just wondering whether you could get the bittering required from adding extra quantity at the 20 min addition. If you can would it be worth the extra cost of hops to get the added aroma and flavour you lose in the 60 min boil.
Bek
Hi Bek,

Short answer is yes.
Long answer:
One of the guys in my area has brewed a 10min IPA (recipe here) using about 200g of hops in a 23L batch!
Some people said it couldn't be done! However, He did it and ended up with a great beer.

Having said this, you just need to weigh up how hoppy you want your beer to be.
Are you after a hop bomb? If so I'd just add more hops at the 10min point to increase your IBU's to balance the beer out some. Just remember that you wont have as much malt balance when doing this type of beer.

Here is a video of the same guys adding a 10 minute addition

HC
Last edited by housecat on 05 Aug 2012, 22:44, edited 3 times in total.
Part of the NoAd brewers

My mum says I'm cool.

Post #14 made 13 years ago
by stoutgirl5
Thanks everyone for all the helpful reply's.

Housecat, that recipe looks really interesting, would definatley like to give that a go sometime.

Hopinator is all about balancing the hops with beautiful maltiness so wont try that recipe just yet. Will keep playing around till I'm happy, either that or i'll just bite the bullet ,stop over thinking things and just brew. Who knows i may even learn something :think:

"I think there is enough we don't know about what we do know to keep us going for some time." :lol: yep you said it PP!

Bek

Post #15 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
Just had another look at your Hoperator recipe Bek. I'm not skilled at recipe design but what yo have there looks great to me. Once you brew that, if you like the recipe, maybe on the next brew, you can start changing the hop bill. For example, you could try removing teh 10 grams at 60 minutes and replacing them with 40 grams at 20 minutes (plus the 69 grams of Centennial). Expensive but certainly interesting :).

And thanks Bob for the links to the Basic Brewing Radio. Managed to listen to them yesterday. Good stuff!

Great hop video too housecat :o.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
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Post #17 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
I hope you will have this bottled by the 19th Bek :drink:.

AS I've said before, I'm not skilled at designing recipes. I'm wondering though why the proportion of Vienna malt is so high? I have no idea if that is a right or wrong thing to do but it was something that I hadn't noticed before in an IPA.

Looking forward to the book club, sorry, beer club meeting on the 19th :lol:.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
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