Now available at Dan Murphys in Sydney in the can.
It is just the type of beer I enjoy and the reason I'm back to brewing and wouldn't mind trying to brew a beer similar to it.
The can and the brewers website give plenty of information on this beer:
OG 1.063. FG. 1.016. SRM20. IBU 50
Grains -
Muntons Maris Otter
Weyermann Caramunich I
Bairds crystal 70-80
Briess Vienna, Victory & Aromatic
Hop bill
Centennial and Cascade.
So, to formulate recipe.
I've found some relevant information:
Muntons Maris Otter - 5-6.9 EBC Up to 100%
Weyermann Caramunich I - 80-100 EBC (5 - 10 % for dark beer1 - 5 % or
light beer, pale ale)
Baird Crystal 70/80 ; 138 - 158 EBC(Crystal malt of colour 70 -80 ?ASBC
has been used at about 5% of the grist to give the characteristic colour
and flavour of UK Bitters and Pale Ales)
Briess Vienna 6.9 EBC
5-10% When used as one of several High Temp Kilned Malts to develop
malty flavor in Vienna, Marzen,
Oktoberfest, Bock, Bavarian Weizen and other beers characterized by
intense to complex malty flavor
25% For pronounced malty flavor
70-90% Base malt
Briess Victory 55 EBC
2-8% Doppelbock, Mild Ales
5-15 Amber ales and lagers, Brown Ales
5-25% Scotch ales and other dark beers
Briess Aromatic 40EBC
5-15% Any style needing an enhanced malty flavor and aroma
Up to 50% Bock/Doppelbock style beers for an exaggerated maltiness.
With the above information the percentages could run something like this (I'll worry about the hops later)
Muntons Maris Otter 30%
Weyermann Caramunich I 10% ?
Bairds crystal 70-80. 5%
Briess Vienna. 25%
Victory 15%
Aromatic 15%
So how can the BIABacus help me with this? Changing the Original Grain Bill design in section C changes the SRM values even when I keep the percentages the same. The SRM value under the substitutions columns stays the same so I think this is the one coded correctly?? Changing the VIF
in section B will only effect the later SRM value (substitutions).
Based on the assumption that the right hand SRM is correct in total, the above grain bill gives an SRM of 18.5.
What specialty grains could be increased here to raise the SRM?
I hope someone can offer some advice.
Post #2 made 11 years ago
Ody,
Can you post your BIABacus file here?
And, just as a heads up, don't worry about SRM estimates too much. The formula they are based on is pretty bad, close to a gimmick. You'll find more posts on this if you do an advanced search of my posts with the term "flavour versus colour." Well, looks like I did that for you
.
Make sure your read those posts though please.
And post your file.
Just remember for now, color is the last thing to be worried about.
PP
Can you post your BIABacus file here?
And, just as a heads up, don't worry about SRM estimates too much. The formula they are based on is pretty bad, close to a gimmick. You'll find more posts on this if you do an advanced search of my posts with the term "flavour versus colour." Well, looks like I did that for you
.Make sure your read those posts though please.
And post your file.
Just remember for now, color is the last thing to be worried about.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 26 Mar 2014, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
Hi PP and thanks for your response
I noticed a newer version if the Biabacus, so I have used that. (seems as though there have been some efficiency changes among other things? It seems to be calling for less TWN)
I understand that colour is not that important, however I think in this case it is the only thing I can use to try and get the grain ratios right. Whether SRM values/calculations are reliable or not, can we assume the small craft breweries calculate the same way as we might or do they measure the finished brew with a spectrophotometer?
Anyway, I will email the actual brewery to see if they might help out a homebrewer from Downunder. It will be interesting to see if I get a response and if they give me ratios.
I suppose the main point of me posting is to see if anyone with practical brewing experience using these grains, could balance the bill based on the SRM values.
I know it may be a fruitless task and juggling the grains to get a theoretical SRM value for the finished brew is unlikely to translate in reality. But it is a bit of fun and definitely a learning experience.
I noticed a newer version if the Biabacus, so I have used that. (seems as though there have been some efficiency changes among other things? It seems to be calling for less TWN)
I understand that colour is not that important, however I think in this case it is the only thing I can use to try and get the grain ratios right. Whether SRM values/calculations are reliable or not, can we assume the small craft breweries calculate the same way as we might or do they measure the finished brew with a spectrophotometer?
Anyway, I will email the actual brewery to see if they might help out a homebrewer from Downunder. It will be interesting to see if I get a response and if they give me ratios.
I suppose the main point of me posting is to see if anyone with practical brewing experience using these grains, could balance the bill based on the SRM values.
I know it may be a fruitless task and juggling the grains to get a theoretical SRM value for the finished brew is unlikely to translate in reality. But it is a bit of fun and definitely a learning experience.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post #4 made 11 years ago
Hey there Ody,
The problem with the colour formula is as follows. Let's pretend that we have a grain bill of 5 kilos and that each kilo of grain gives us fifty colour units. In other words, 5 kilos equals 250 colour units.
Let's say that I boil the wort and after chilling it to ambient temperature, I end up with a VAW (Volume of Ambient Wort) of 20 litres. That means my beer would be 12.5 colour units (250/20).
Now, that is me. But what about you? Let's say my EIB (Efficiency into Boil) is 77% but yours is 85% (about 10% higher.) This means you will need 10% less grain than I did to get the same VAW. But this also means that you will end up with "theoretically" only 11.25 colour units in your beer.
There/s other distorting factors in the colour formula equation as well which I won't go into here. Hopefully the above though allows you to see the main one. Unless you match the original brewer's EIB, then the formula will always give you a different result.
If you ask the original brewer what their kettle efficiency* is then you could use colours as a clue. )YOu'd also need the specs of their malt though as well as many of those published on the web are a bit dodgy.)
* Efficiency into Boil, Efficiency at End of Boil, Efficiency of Ambient Wort are all 'kettle efficiencies'.
Your File
Everything is looking very nice Ody
.
In Section D, you have the top two lines filled in. the only thing I want to know are where those two numbers came from. Just want to double-check that you have typed them in consciously.
Good stuff!
PP
The problem with the colour formula is as follows. Let's pretend that we have a grain bill of 5 kilos and that each kilo of grain gives us fifty colour units. In other words, 5 kilos equals 250 colour units.
Let's say that I boil the wort and after chilling it to ambient temperature, I end up with a VAW (Volume of Ambient Wort) of 20 litres. That means my beer would be 12.5 colour units (250/20).
Now, that is me. But what about you? Let's say my EIB (Efficiency into Boil) is 77% but yours is 85% (about 10% higher.) This means you will need 10% less grain than I did to get the same VAW. But this also means that you will end up with "theoretically" only 11.25 colour units in your beer.
There/s other distorting factors in the colour formula equation as well which I won't go into here. Hopefully the above though allows you to see the main one. Unless you match the original brewer's EIB, then the formula will always give you a different result.
If you ask the original brewer what their kettle efficiency* is then you could use colours as a clue. )YOu'd also need the specs of their malt though as well as many of those published on the web are a bit dodgy.)
* Efficiency into Boil, Efficiency at End of Boil, Efficiency of Ambient Wort are all 'kettle efficiencies'.
Your File
Everything is looking very nice Ody
.In Section D, you have the top two lines filled in. the only thing I want to know are where those two numbers came from. Just want to double-check that you have typed them in consciously.
Good stuff!
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 27 Mar 2014, 19:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
Thanks PP,
Your posts are great! I'm starting to see the light.
Look, I played around with the VAW in section D and I'm not sure why I have left it as that. I think it was necessary to fill in and that seemed to be a good fit. But it seems to have a bigger impact in things in this later version. I need to look more closely at this.
The IBU's are what is required for this beer (although whether this meant to be tinseth i do not know.)
Ody
Your posts are great! I'm starting to see the light.
Look, I played around with the VAW in section D and I'm not sure why I have left it as that. I think it was necessary to fill in and that seemed to be a good fit. But it seems to have a bigger impact in things in this later version. I need to look more closely at this.
The IBU's are what is required for this beer (although whether this meant to be tinseth i do not know.)
Ody
Post #6 made 11 years ago
This is my best guess
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Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 28 Mar 2014, 07:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
Not far off Mad, thanks for the post. I got a response from the brewery and the grist ratio is as follows:
Here are the grist ratios, hop schedules, etc.:
Bronx Pale Ale:
80% Muntons Maris Otter/Tipple blend
8% Weyermann Caramunich I
4% Briess Victory
4% Briess Vienna
4% Briess Aromatic
Cascade and Centennial hops: additions at start of boil, 30th minute, 45th minute, 60th minute and dry hop
So no crystal, which is only mentioned on the web site and not on the can.
No idea how they get the SRM up to 20, maybe someone can explain how that works.
So I now have something to play with on the BIABacus. Also got the grain ratios for their rye pale ale which I'll try and do a brew based on as well, down the track. Nothing on the yeast but as they claim it to be a unique strain of yeast I think an east cost ale yeast like WLP008 would have to be the style to try.
Cheers
Ody
Here are the grist ratios, hop schedules, etc.:
Bronx Pale Ale:
80% Muntons Maris Otter/Tipple blend
8% Weyermann Caramunich I
4% Briess Victory
4% Briess Vienna
4% Briess Aromatic
Cascade and Centennial hops: additions at start of boil, 30th minute, 45th minute, 60th minute and dry hop
So no crystal, which is only mentioned on the web site and not on the can.
No idea how they get the SRM up to 20, maybe someone can explain how that works.
So I now have something to play with on the BIABacus. Also got the grain ratios for their rye pale ale which I'll try and do a brew based on as well, down the track. Nothing on the yeast but as they claim it to be a unique strain of yeast I think an east cost ale yeast like WLP008 would have to be the style to try.
Cheers
Ody
Post #8 made 11 years ago
I would have went with 80% MO.
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
Good oh Ody. And nice guessing on the recipe MSOdymate wrote:Thanks PP,
Your posts are great! I'm starting to see the light.
Look, I played around with the VAW in section D and I'm not sure why I have left it as that. I think it was necessary to fill in and that seemed to be a good fit. But it seems to have a bigger impact in things in this later version. I need to look more closely at this.
The IBU's are what is required for this beer (although whether this meant to be tinseth i do not know.)
Ody
),VAW does two things in the BIABacus...
1. If you have typed in the weights of the original recipe, it will help to determine the colour of the original recipe. One handy use of that field is to help understand unclear original recipes, which most original recipes are.
2. The main purpose though is to determine the true Tinseth IBU's of the original recipe.
BUT
If you type in an IBU number on the second line of Section D it will over-ride 2 above.
You said above, "The IBU's are what is required for this beer (although whether this meant to be tinseth i do not know.)" Yep, you don't know if the brewer is talking Rager, Garetz, Tinseth, perceived or laboratory IBU's
. Hopefully they are using one of the latter three. In any case, if you don't know their actual hop bill and their VAW, then typing in the IBU number on the second line of Section D is going to be the best you will be able to do. PP
P.S. Re the bigger impact in the later version, I'd need more info on what you mean with this. As far as I can see, there shouldn't be a bigger impact but who knows, there may be an error?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 31 Mar 2014, 20:41, edited 1 time in total.
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