First Wort Hopping - Who's doing it? Do you do it every brew? Will you go back to a basic 60min addition? I did it on a whim on my last batch, and just wondering what other peoples opinions were.
Cheers :D
Post #2 made 15 years ago
What exactly are the benefits of it? It seems that most people treat it like a 20min hop addition that gives some smooth bittering as well as the flavor you receive from a regular 20min. But what's really the difference between a traditional 60 for bittering and late additions for flavor/aroma? Especially since I no-chill, I get beautiful results out of flameout additions.
I usually just do a 60 and then a metric fuckton of 5min/flameout additions.
I usually just do a 60 and then a metric fuckton of 5min/flameout additions.
Last edited by iijakii on 30 Sep 2010, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
Post #3 made 15 years ago
Stitch, a very good topic. Have only done this once and will look up my notes as soon as I stop laughing at metric fucktons.iijakii wrote:...a metric fuckton...
An excellent topic temporarily superseded by an excellent phrase
.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 30 Sep 2010, 00:26, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #4 made 15 years ago
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Boil Size: 45.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 6.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 59.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.83 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.54 %
0.70 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7.69 %
0.52 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.77 %
69.57 gm Cascade [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 34.4 IBU
26.09 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
52.17 gm Cascade [8.20 %] (15 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
52.17 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
0.87 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
I brewed this on the weekend, and the 60min addition was FWH, and then no chill into cubes. Last time I brewed it, I did a normal 60min addition and no chilled, and it was an awesome beer, needless to say the keg was emptied in record time. I believe it has something to do with extracting flavours and aromas that can't be obtained from the usual 20 - 15 - Flame out additions.
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Boil Size: 45.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 6.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 59.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.83 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.54 %
0.70 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 7.69 %
0.52 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.77 %
69.57 gm Cascade [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 34.4 IBU
26.09 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
52.17 gm Cascade [8.20 %] (15 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
52.17 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
0.87 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
I brewed this on the weekend, and the 60min addition was FWH, and then no chill into cubes. Last time I brewed it, I did a normal 60min addition and no chilled, and it was an awesome beer, needless to say the keg was emptied in record time. I believe it has something to do with extracting flavours and aromas that can't be obtained from the usual 20 - 15 - Flame out additions.
Post #5 made 15 years ago
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/bee-cav ... zen-35679/
Going to make that this Sunday. Following the http://www.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/dat ... Adjust.bmp I'll put the bittering Hallertau addition in at 25-30min mark, and I'm deciding on if I want to use the 15 as a FWH or a cubehop at flameout.
Edit; Yeah, I'm going to do an ounce in FWH and an ounce in 25min. ~8gal batch.
Going to make that this Sunday. Following the http://www.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/dat ... Adjust.bmp I'll put the bittering Hallertau addition in at 25-30min mark, and I'm deciding on if I want to use the 15 as a FWH or a cubehop at flameout.
Edit; Yeah, I'm going to do an ounce in FWH and an ounce in 25min. ~8gal batch.
Post #6 made 15 years ago
I've heard of brews that are entirely cube hopped. I think I'm a bit too much of a tightarse for a brew like that. If it turns out to not be very good, i'll get upset at having to tip it out. Then again, It could be *awesome*, but in this situation, i'd view the glass as half empty...
Post #7 made 15 years ago
Stitch wrote:I've heard of brews that are entirely cube hopped. I think I'm a bit too much of a tightarse for a brew like that. If it turns out to not be very good, i'll get upset at having to tip it out. Then again, It could be *awesome*, but in this situation, i'd view the glass as half empty...
That's what small cubes and 5 litre demijohns are for, doing small, experimental batches
Last edited by hashie on 02 Oct 2010, 15:01, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #8 made 13 years ago
I was on Google last night looking into using no chill with my hop bursted IPA and I don’t think it’s going to work, as I think I would lose my hop bursting hoppiness. Then I came across First Wort Hopping (FWH) and it looks like it might do the trick and then some!
I like to feature hops, and I am currently late hopping (hop bursting) with cascade for a single 15 minute boil with immersion chilling. I really like the flavour together with the simplicity and I am reluctant to change. I’m using 6oz Cascade leaf hops for this (5 gal/20L batch)
What I want to do for my AG BIAB beer is try FWH, using the same amount of hops, again with a single addition. What would I end up with? Would someone explain the FWH process as it relates to BIAB and the results as far as taste are concerned?
I have an extract version of the same hoppy beer that I still make, as it’s quick and hoppy and nice. I was thinking of taking the plunge into FWH with the extract beer. FWH with extract seems to be almost unheard of. I was thinking of dissolving dme, then throwing in the hops at around 160f, bringing up to hot break, then flame out and no-chill. Am I a complete nut? If so great! Nuttiness is ok with me… but ignorance is not so blissful!
I’m interested in anything you have to say about First Wort Hopping please.
I like to feature hops, and I am currently late hopping (hop bursting) with cascade for a single 15 minute boil with immersion chilling. I really like the flavour together with the simplicity and I am reluctant to change. I’m using 6oz Cascade leaf hops for this (5 gal/20L batch)
What I want to do for my AG BIAB beer is try FWH, using the same amount of hops, again with a single addition. What would I end up with? Would someone explain the FWH process as it relates to BIAB and the results as far as taste are concerned?
I have an extract version of the same hoppy beer that I still make, as it’s quick and hoppy and nice. I was thinking of taking the plunge into FWH with the extract beer. FWH with extract seems to be almost unheard of. I was thinking of dissolving dme, then throwing in the hops at around 160f, bringing up to hot break, then flame out and no-chill. Am I a complete nut? If so great! Nuttiness is ok with me… but ignorance is not so blissful!
I’m interested in anything you have to say about First Wort Hopping please.
Guinges
Post #9 made 13 years ago
Guinges, I think there may be some Confusion....FWH is the way to add Hops at Sparge, or as BIAB is, when we pull the bag. I can not see a way to FWH extract.....
If you FWH hop with BIAB, you should find the Bitterness is Smoother,as not hitting the Back of you tougue like a brick, but, across the entire tougue, an get a bit more flavor than a 20 minute additon.
It does nothing for aromoa, except make the brew shed smell great!
If you FWH hop with BIAB, you should find the Bitterness is Smoother,as not hitting the Back of you tougue like a brick, but, across the entire tougue, an get a bit more flavor than a 20 minute additon.
It does nothing for aromoa, except make the brew shed smell great!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #10 made 13 years ago
GuingesRock
I have been trying FWH for the last 6 months or so and haven't noticed much difference over my past process of dumping them in the wort at 60 minutes. I expect that is because I favor hoppy beers and I obliterate any improvements that are made with my overboard dry hopping? FWH is suppose to mellow out the bitterness? Maybe it does but my tests were probably flawed?
I bought Stan's book. Listen to the mp3 below.
-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
January 10, 2013 - For the Love of Hops
Author Stan Hieronymus joins us to talk about his latest book, For the Love of Hops: The Practical Guide to Aroma, Bitterness and the Culture of Hops.
iTunes | http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/ ... vehops.mp3
So why would no chill and hop bursted not work? I have a beer next to me in a bucket that is hop bursted. I put my bittering hops in at 40 minutes into the boil. Every five minutes after that I put in a ounce (28 Grams) of hops. At 45 min, 50, 55 and flame out. I dumped the hops into my hop spider and pulled them out as I put the wort into my no chill container. I expect to put 2 ounces of dry hops in before kegging. I expect this to be a mighty fine beer!was on Google last night looking into using no chill with my hop bursted IPA and I don’t think it’s going to work, as I think I would lose my hop bursting hoppiness. Then I came across First Wort Hopping (FWH) and it looks like it might do the trick and then some!
I have been trying FWH for the last 6 months or so and haven't noticed much difference over my past process of dumping them in the wort at 60 minutes. I expect that is because I favor hoppy beers and I obliterate any improvements that are made with my overboard dry hopping? FWH is suppose to mellow out the bitterness? Maybe it does but my tests were probably flawed?
I bought Stan's book. Listen to the mp3 below.
-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio
January 10, 2013 - For the Love of Hops
Author Stan Hieronymus joins us to talk about his latest book, For the Love of Hops: The Practical Guide to Aroma, Bitterness and the Culture of Hops.
iTunes | http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/ ... vehops.mp3
Last edited by BobBrews on 28 Jan 2013, 21:53, edited 5 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #11 made 13 years ago
Thanks Joshua, I may have the terminology wrong, but I still might try it with the extract made 160F wort. Don't know if it will work though.
Thanks Bob, I leave my leaf hops in for the ferment. I'm worried that the single large hop bursting 15 minute addition would turn into a several hour addition, since the hops would be in the no-chill vessel, and I would lose the benifits. Thanks for the links. I'll definitely have a look/listen when I get home from work this evening.
Thanks Bob, I leave my leaf hops in for the ferment. I'm worried that the single large hop bursting 15 minute addition would turn into a several hour addition, since the hops would be in the no-chill vessel, and I would lose the benifits. Thanks for the links. I'll definitely have a look/listen when I get home from work this evening.
Guinges
Post #12 made 13 years ago
I am currently running a side by side test on FWH and will post the results when done. I am using the same wort, boil time, hops amount, fermenter type, yeast and temperature. The only difference is the FWH hops have sat at about 60c for 40 minutes to simulate sparge time.
Everything in moderation - including moderation!
Post #13 made 13 years ago
@novaris
I seem to like FWH but I also think I'm just a bit biased at my own brew. Kudos to you for doing a side by side.
I (impatiently) await your results
I seem to like FWH but I also think I'm just a bit biased at my own brew. Kudos to you for doing a side by side.
I (impatiently) await your results
Post #14 made 13 years ago
You are not a complete nutGuingesRock wrote:I have an extract version of the same hoppy beer that I still make, as it’s quick and hoppy and nice. I was thinking of taking the plunge into FWH with the extract beer. FWH with extract seems to be almost unheard of. I was thinking of dissolving dme, then throwing in the hops at around 160f, bringing up to hot break, then flame out and no-chill. Am I a complete nut? If so great! Nuttiness is ok with me… but ignorance is not so blissful!
I’m interested in anything you have to say about First Wort Hopping please.
. If you have a standard extract beer you like, then tis would enable some areas of hop management to be explored well. With some careful planning you could explore late hop management using just a 15 minute boil - there's a podcast on this somewhere - BasicBrewingRadio from memory.You asked for more info on FWH'ing. I'm going to write a post on this in another thread shortly and I'll link it here when done. [Here's the link. It's not what I planned but I think you will find value in it.] One thing I'd like to address here, briefly, is how to FWH.
While I was on holiday, I read this thread and one thing that caught my attention was Stitch's old post below....
The above was posted before any of us 'older' posters had explored this topic much so none of us were able to help Stitch at the time.Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
69.57 gm Cascade [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 34.4 IBU
26.09 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
52.17 gm Cascade [8.20 %] (15 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
52.17 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
0.87 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
I brewed this on the weekend, and the 60min addition was FWH.
If we had been more knowledgeable at the time, we would have said, "No, that's not the way to FWH!"
We honestly know very little more than we knew back then and the post I'm going to link will explain why. BUT!...
After researching this, one thing we do know is that the way you FWH is totally counter-intuitive. Can you see how Stitch has 'stolen' his FWH from the 60 minute addition? This is actually incorrect. From the very little we know about FWH'ing, the last hops you should steal from are the bittering hops.
Let's pretend you had a hop bill as follows....
60 grams of whatever AA% hops @ 90 mins
25 grams of whatever AA% hops @ 15 mins
15 grams of whatever AA% hops @ 0 mins
then to FWH this recipe, you can move 30 to 50% of the late hops to FWH. If we chose 40% then the recipe would now become...
40 grams of whatever AA% hops (First Wort Hopped)
60 grams of whatever AA% hops @ 90 mins
See how it is counter-intuitive?
The real answer though is that we currently don't have the skills, technology, expertise etc to draw many conclusions at all about how you manage your hops affects your beer. Most knowledge that home brewers read or listen to in this area, they take as gospel just as I did. They are very faulted in their logic though.
It's important though not to ridicule the knowledge we have too much. Existing formulas can often get us in the ballpark. They are the only tools we have atm and so we need to use them.
It's very important though that new (and old) brewers move as fast as possible to the stage where they realise that hop management is an incredibly crazy area that can't be formulated well at present.
I better start writing that next post - will link here when done. [Copy of above: Here's the link. It's not what I planned but I think you will find value in it.]
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 06 Feb 2013, 18:28, edited 5 times in total.
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