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Effect of Mash Temperature on Extraction Efficiency

Post #1 made 13 years ago
by smyrnaquince
Two brews ago, my mash temp got away from me (I didn't allow for continued heating from the electric coils on my stove after turning the burner off) and I mashed at 158 F. My extraction efficiency was 77%. With yesterday's brew, I paid attention and mashed at 154 F. That brew had an efficiency of 85%.

From Palmer's book, I recall that beta amylase is denatured at higher temperatures and I was wondering if this might explain my lower efficiency in the earlier brew and the higher efficiency in the later brew.

Everything else was pretty much the same (90-minute mash, squeeze the heck out of the bag) except that the earlier brew had a mashout at 172 F and the later brew at 170 F. For the efficiency calculations, the max sugars were based on actual grain weights and gravities, not averages, and the actual sugars extracted were based on the start of boil volume and gravity.

Thoughts?

Post #2 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, What you have IS the reason for different beers.
At 158F, you will have a sweeter, thicker mouth feel beer, due to Less time Between 131F and 152F(Beta Amylase) and more time at 154F to 161F(Alpha amylase). This causes more un-fermentable sugars to be made.

At 154F or less The Beta Amylase breaks down more starch to simple/Fermentable sugars. This beer will be a bit dryer, and maybe thinner mouth feel.

Look over Palmer site at http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-1.html

Have fun making different beers!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #3 made 13 years ago
by smyrnaquince
I understand about the different mouthfeel/fermentability, but I am trying to figure out the difference in extraction efficiencies.

I forgot one other difference. The first grainbill was crushed by a mail order shop. (I requested a double crush, but don't know if they did.) The second one was double-crushed by me at the LHBS. Maybe the crush explains it.

Post #4 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
Oh no! All the posts I have ever made here on efficiency have gone to waste :dunno:.

Come on Dave (smyrnaquince) you know better...

Two things...

1. Why use the term, 'extraction efficiency' when this site works so hard to educate people into using 'efficiency into kettle' as a common language?

2. You know that you can't possibly compare figures from two brews.

A thousand things could explain differences in efficiency from one brew to the other.

You see where I'm coming from? Never ever trust your measurements from a single brew. Take notice after two brews getting the same result. Investigate after three brews but never, ever make a conclusion from s single brew. If you do, you'll find someone out there that will agree with your opinion and reinforce it. The end result is you learn nothing.

You've really upset me now :lol:,
PP
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Post #5 made 13 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
Maybe you should re-word your question so you don't get yelled at and actually get an answer to your question. Leave out the details and instead say, "Assuming all things equal, what are the effects on EIK with mash temps >154F?"

I interpreted this as the main reason for your post, not to peg down the exact reason for different efficiencies.

If the answer to your question is yes, then this could be one of the many variables that will affect your EIK for two different brews.

Post #6 made 13 years ago
by smyrnaquince
PP--Sorry to have been a failed student.
  • EIK instead of extraction efficiency? Fine.
  • Ask me not to try to figure out the difference between only two brews? Never. I'm an engineer. I have to try to figure it out. (I guess if I were a statistician, I'd say that I don't have a statistically significant sample and that I needed to brew more.)
BrickBrewHaus--Yes, I am wondering if mash temps about 154 F adversely affect EIK.
Last edited by smyrnaquince on 06 Mar 2012, 01:51, edited 3 times in total.

Post #7 made 13 years ago
by stux
I think the difference is more likely to the grind

My efficiency doesn't vary significantly based on mash temp (although it's quite possible there is an effect)

A much bigger effect is the crush. I dialed mine to 0.7, then 0.6 then 0.5mm and noticed significant Imprpvement in efficiency, but at 0.5mm I had trouble drain the bag, ended up with a lot of sludge at the bottom of the kettle and could sieve my kettle trub. At 0.6mm I get lower conversion but less trub and troubles ;)
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5/7/12

Post #8 made 13 years ago
by PistolPatch
smyrnaquince wrote:PP--Sorry to have been a failed student.
Lol Dave. I am such a terminology nazi :roll: :lol:.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 06 Mar 2012, 09:17, edited 3 times in total.
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