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adding sugar during fermentation

Post #1 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
i have read/heard that when brewing a beer that has white sugar as part of the fermentables, it is better to add the sugar during primary fermentation so that the yeast don't slack of and eat the simple sugars before finishing the maltose.
my question is: when should i add the sugar to the fermenter?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #2 made 15 years ago
by BobBrews
Shibolet,
Your right to add additional sugars after the maltose is mostly used up (as the bubbles slow down). I am not sure that using cane sugar in the fermenter is the correct way to go about it? Doesn't cane sugar need to be converted with heat before it is used as food for yeast? I don't have the time to search for an exact answer but It might be better to use corn sugar this time and check it out later? I usually add sugar to the boil just before flame out. If you add corn sugar make sure you oxygenate the fermenter also. It doesn't do much good to give yeast new food if they are choking for air. Good luck
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #3 made 15 years ago
by Ralph
Good question, there's a few schools of thought. Certainly during primary but beyond that, not at the start, not at the end. I'd say, whenever its convenient, but if you're doing a high- OG beast then maybe later once SG has progressed significantly. With standard- strength of around 5% abv, I know it won't hurt to add it prior to pitching. I actually add sugar to UK Bitters late in the boil for easier maths at post- boil dilution (MaxiBIAB), no trouble with attenuation at all, alternately at pitching, six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Last edited by Ralph on 19 Oct 2010, 21:21, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #4 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
it a belgian strong. aroung 6.3%.
only 600gr of sugar (i will boil it in a bit of water).
i guess i'll add it three days into the fermentation.

BTW, this will be s split batch to do a side-by-side with 2 yeast strains.
Wyeast 1214 - Belgian Abbey
Wyeast 3522 - Belgian Ardennes
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #5 made 15 years ago
by BobBrews
Great! Boil it, cover it, cool it, use it! Let us know how the side by side goes. Very interesting!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #7 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Yes you can if you can do hand calculations to adjust. Sugar is 42 ppg. (sorry, I am American and will use my units)

1. Take your OG and subtract 1 then multiply by 1000 (or just simply take the last two number of your reading, ie 1.069 is 69).

2. Take the pounds of sugar you are adding and multiply by 42 (say 2 pounds x 42 = 84). Divide this number by the number of gallons (say 5 gallons so 16.8)

3. Add the two numbers (69+16.8=85.8). Divide that number by 1000 and add 1 (or just put a 1 and a decimal place in front if you have three digits before the decimal or in our instance 1, a decimal place followed by a 0 in front if you have two digits say 85.8 become 1.086)

4. This is your adjusted OG. Procede with OG-FG X 131 to get your ABV estimate.
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
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Post #8 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
Sugar does not need to be converted, you can pitch it right into the fermenter if you want, just watch that it will release gases in a fermenting brew so you can get a vesuvius. Do small additions over a few days. I do it once the krausen starts falling usually. Dissolving it in water can be done but isn't necessary. Sugar is extremely fermentable but it does thin a beer out.

It can also be added during the boil but can caramelize if added early in the boil so be aware of that if you want a pale beer.
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
Facebook BIAB Group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7 ... 978&ref=nf

Post #9 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
Two If By Sea wrote:Yes you can if you can do hand calculations to adjust. Sugar is 42 ppg. (sorry, I am American and will use my units)

1. Take your OG and subtract 1 then multiply by 1000 (or just simply take the last two number of your reading, ie 1.069 is 69).

2. Take the pounds of sugar you are adding and multiply by 42 (say 2 pounds x 42 = 84). Divide this number by the number of gallons (say 5 gallons so 16.8)

3. Add the two numbers (69+16.8=85.8). Divide that number by 1000 and add 1 (or just put a 1 and a decimal place in front if you have three digits before the decimal or in our instance 1, a decimal place followed by a 0 in front if you have two digits say 85.8 become 1.086)

4. This is your adjusted OG. Procede with OG-FG X 131 to get your ABV estimate.
i have a simpler method:
say you have a recipe that includes sugar and your software tells you the expected OG is 1.060
delete the sugar from the ingredients and see what the expected OG is now. lets say 1.055.
put the sugar back onto the ingredients list.
measure your actual OG after brewing. the gravity from the sugar you will add later is the 0.005.
and your overall OG is the measured gravity at the start of fermentation + the sugar gravity.
Last edited by shibolet on 27 Oct 2010, 15:40, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #10 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
having said that, i must admit that i am not at all that accurate in my brewing.
on my last brew (the side by side Belgian) i measured an (sugarless) OG of 1.060.
the volume is approximately 22L (a bit less than my full no-chill cube).
after splitting the wort into 2 fermenters (approximating about half into each) i than added a one liter yeast starter into each fermenter. after 3-4 days, i added 300gr of white sugar dissolved into 500ml of water into each.
now, what is the f*%&^ing OG on that?
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #11 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
sigurdur wrote: If we use a simple method (BeerSmith) and assume that you add 1.5L of water to start with (unfermentable beer [starter] + water used to dissolve sugar). I guess this is close enough to approximate the OG.
11L + 1.5L (1L starter + 500ml water) of water equals 12.5L of 1.053 OG
12.5 liters are 3.3 gallons.
300 grams are 0.66 pounds.
(42 * 0.66) / 3.3 = 9.24 gravity points
1.053 + 1.009 = 1.062

So your OG is 1.062 :)
that is perfect as the original recipe came to an OG of 1.063. so i'm happy. but just to throw you off a bit, the yeast starter wort had a gravity of 1.035...

buy hey, i'm happy with 1.062.
Last edited by shibolet on 27 Oct 2010, 21:43, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #13 made 15 years ago
by Two If By Sea
All very good options, I was more or less thinking about being outside at the kettle with a calculator and getting the numbers (once or twice through them and you can do it quickly). I also strongly believe that every brewer should at least once do a recipe with hand calculations. I built a spreadsheet that does a number of these calculations I call widgets that I can substitute in a few real numbers and get answers. I have one that does this sugar calculations we are talking about. Once you do the numbers, I think you get a whole better idea of what is going on than using Beersmith or other program in a plug and chug mode. I certainly use Beersmith still but I know what it is doing in the background. Just MHXO.
Blog: http://littlehouseonthesandpit.wordpress.com/
Facebook BIAB Group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7 ... 978&ref=nf

Post #14 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
update:
i bottled the side-by-side batches:
Wyeast 1214 - Belgian Abbey = FG:1025, ABV 5.3
Wyeast 3522 - Belgian Ardennes = FG:1009, ABV 7.2
(assuming an OG of 1.065)

the Abbey ale yeast was grown up from the dregs of a very old bottle of homebrew (and they were apparently tired) , the ARDENNES are a second generation of an fairly new bag.

tasting notes to follow.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
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