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Post #2 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
jordie,
I use pure c02 to oxygenate my wort. I reuse my yeast cake from previous beers so often that I can not tell if it slows the lag times in freshly pitched wort. I add fresh wort from my no chill cube to the yeast cake and stir with my oxygen stone attached to a stainless steel wand. I have full fermentation within a few hours! I add about 1 minute of oxygen while stirring. I also add a few drops of Ferm-Cap to prevent exploding buckets. Your question is still not answered but I hope to show that at least it does not slow fermentation when reusing a yeast cake. Maybe it is the same for smaller amounts of yeast?
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

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Post #3 made 13 years ago
by jrodie
hmmm...Well I haven't been re-using yeast cakes. But I have been making starters and using an oxygen tank and stone. I think maybe the lag times have been from using lower fermentation temps (mid 60s).

Post #4 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
jrodie wrote:hmmm...Well I haven't been re-using yeast cakes. But I have been making starters and using an oxygen tank and stone. I think maybe the lag times have been from using lower fermentation temps (mid 60s).
You may have answered your own question? The type of yeast of course determines that too. Ale yeast or Lager yeast? Really, when making a starter does it matter? You have a easy time cleaning the flask and moving yeast into that flask. There is no chance to contaminate the wort so if the ferment doesn't start right away so be it.
Last edited by BobBrews on 20 Apr 2012, 01:08, edited 3 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #6 made 13 years ago
by thughes
I just recently started oxygenating with pure O2. This was necessitated by my recent experiment with fermenting right in my no-chill cube as there is no good way to otherwise aerate the wort before pitching yeast.

I have no scientific data but I can say that anecdotally it seems to shorten lag time and result in a much more "vigorous" fermentation.

--Todd
WWBBD?
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Post #7 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, I found Long lag times come from Low fermentation temperatures, low O2 contant, and no DiAmmoium Phosphate (DAP).
And once it took 2 weeks to start fermentation, I forgot the yeast!
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #8 made 13 years ago
by Ziggybrew
Maybe I'm not reading your question correctly, but I found that adding O2 virtually eliminated (decreased) the lag time. My wort with a starter and added O2 begins to ferment before I finished cleaning up my brew-day mess. It seems to be a screaming jump into the anaerobic stage. Maybe I'm not observing correctly. In the book, YEAST, by White and Zainasheff suggest that a healthy culture is overlapping these stages at some point. I'm guessing that while some yeasties are still sucking O2 and making babies other yeasts are already in the anaerobic phase pissing ethanol. But to me it all looks like a fast switch past lag time. Any other thoughts?

Post #9 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
thughes

Have you had time to evaluate the fermenting in the no chill yet? I fermented in the cube last month and then reused the no chill container to ferment a second time (with a beer waiting in another N/C cube) with the same beer tweaked a little. Stupidly (as usual) I did rush the first beer because I bought a Nitro tap and wanted this Black IPA on Nitro! The second beer was also a Black IPA with peat smoked malt added. It's also kegged and waiting it's turn. The sample was awesome.

The first beer is good but needs a little more time and I don't think it will be around long enough to mature (sort of like me?). My rough evaluation is that I didn't notice much difference between fermenting in my bucket or the no chill cube? The only difference is that cleaning out the cube was more difficult (as expected) than the bucket. I picked the wrong beers to try this with because they need more time to mature and I rushed it so that I could play with my new toy (nitro tap)!

To All:

I am having a house full of people for Trivia this week end. We play for 54 continues hours! We go through a LOT of beer and coffee. http://90fmtrivia.org/ You are all welcome on my team. We have international teams from Italy and I forget where else. The Music is super and it is on the internet. If you have answers for me I will take them! My web site is here http://www.stempski.com/ The contest starts April 20th thru April 22 2012 After the traditional start of playing "Born to be wild" and the rules being read the questions start! Wish me luck and don't expect to hear from me until Monday. Our team is named "Baby Boomers and Boomers Babies year 16" That is a crazy name but look at the scores from past years and you will see that we are actually boring! IM rstempski@hotmail.com I think
Last edited by BobBrews on 20 Apr 2012, 21:14, edited 3 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #10 made 13 years ago
by gugguson
Hello.

I also have O2 oxygen which I pump into the wort. However I haven't found any concrete answer to how powerfull the pump should be. How are you measuring it and do you aim for visible bubbles coming on top?

Johann
Ziggybrew wrote:Maybe I'm not reading your question correctly, but I found that adding O2 virtually eliminated (decreased) the lag time. My wort with a starter and added O2 begins to ferment before I finished cleaning up my brew-day mess. It seems to be a screaming jump into the anaerobic stage. Maybe I'm not observing correctly. In the book, YEAST, by White and Zainasheff suggest that a healthy culture is overlapping these stages at some point. I'm guessing that while some yeasties are still sucking O2 and making babies other yeasts are already in the anaerobic phase pissing ethanol. But to me it all looks like a fast switch past lag time. Any other thoughts?
Last edited by gugguson on 20 Apr 2012, 21:27, edited 3 times in total.

Post #12 made 13 years ago
by gugguson
When I lower the pressure when I get bubbles I see no indication that there is any oxygen flowing, when I hold the stone to the side of the carboy I don't see any bubbles flowing out of it. I might need better control for my oxygen tank to have more detailed control.
jrodie wrote:After asking around I found one guy who said that if you are getting bubbles when you use O2 it means the O2 is pumping too fast to dissolve into the wort.
Last edited by gugguson on 20 Apr 2012, 21:53, edited 3 times in total.

Post #13 made 13 years ago
by BobBrews
It has to bubble. it transfers c02 while flowing up. It's normal? 1 minute of bubbles for 5 gal - 19 liter of wort!
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #14 made 13 years ago
by thughes
The first batch is just getting ready (been bottled for 10 days now) but a taste test last night shows it's coming along nicely. Unfortunately it is an experimental recipe so I cannot compare it to anything I have brewed in the past.

The biggest issue is that I have the 6 gallon round white Winpacs that I use for cubes. If I fill them to the 6 gallon level (to end up with 5 gallons beer after accounting for the 1 gallon of trub, hop residue, break material, etc) they puke krausen all over the inside of my fermentation chamber, even with Fermcap added. It seems that 1" of head space is simply not enough so I would need to adjust my volumes so that I only end up with about 4 gallons of finished beer in order to eliminate the mess (and that is NOT an option!!!).

I do have the 7 gallon aquatainers I could use which would eliminate the head space problem but the molded handle on the aquatainer creates a very difficult cleaning situation. With the Winpac I just fill it with Oxyclean and hot water, screw the cap on, and stand it upside down for a few days, then rinse.

The other thing I don't like is not being able to watch my fermentation (I'm a voyeur). At this point, I think I will continue to use the cubes for no-chill but will siphon the wort into my Better Bottles to ferment.

---Todd
WWBBD?
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #16 made 13 years ago
by BrickBrewHaus
jrodie wrote:There'll be bubbles I guess. But I think he was talking about a bunch of foam building on top being indicator that not all the O2 was being absorbed.
Correct. If bubbles are reaching the surface of the wort, then whatever amount of O2 in that bubble is not being absorbed into the wort -- aka, its wasted.

If using a glass carboy its easy. Move the sintered stone close to the side where you can see it. Open up the O2 valve until you see bubbles coming out of the stone. If you have a bunch of bubbles reaching the surface, close the valve a little bit. There's really no way of knowing how much is being absorbed unless you have a dissolved oxygen meter. But its surely a waste of O2 if you have the valve cranked wide open.
Last edited by BrickBrewHaus on 24 Apr 2012, 01:04, edited 3 times in total.

Post #17 made 13 years ago
by joshua
Good Day I have read that Nitrogen can help the yeast and O2 is used for growth.

I have used an aqurium pump with a good filter(HEPA) to put "AIR" into the wort, and it took time with the little bubbles.

When In a hurry, I pour the Kettle/NC Cube into the Fermentation bucket from a .5 meter height, and can still get a 3 hour lag time.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #18 made 13 years ago
by rockbotton
No oxygen for me either. I usually do want Joshua does and empty my cube into my fermentor to get a lot of splashing. Most of the time I have to stop and let the foam settle to get it all in. No problems with fermentation taking off.
Fermenting:

Bottle Conditioning

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Post #19 made 13 years ago
by stux
i've had issues with poor fermentation results just pouring cubes from on high for aeration.

I now stir the wort in the fermenter for a good few minutes, trying to fold the foam in and beat it down under the surface.

Gives me nice healthy clean ferments

Oxygen setups just seem to expensive
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #20 made 13 years ago
by jrodie
Just a quick history on why I made the OP. I thought I was getting some off flavors from the fermentation. So I tried using oxygen not to shorten my lag times but to get a "cleaner" yeast flavor. On this I thought it was a great success. Curiously though I noticed longer lag times. Not sure why but it must have been because of some other factor (like fermentation temp).
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