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4000 W for 15gallon

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by subl
Hello, im in the process of converting my 19g/70l kettle to electric and am wondering if this http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AC-220V- ... 71282.html 4kw electric element will be enough to boil 15g/55l of water (ambient temperature is in the low 60s), i dont have acess to the 5500w low density ones as they dont ship them over here.
My setup will be very simple with just the element and a switch connected to a 20a/220v outlet, it is biab so im planning on mashing in the same kettle.
Also im wondering how far from the bottom should i mount it, im worried the sediment might scortch it if i put it too low but at the same time i also need to fit an imersion chiller in there.
Should i just lower my preboil volume, maybe put some isolating material around the kettle or will i be fine?
Tnx.
Last edited by subl on 21 Feb 2015, 19:32, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 11 years ago
by nosco
I have limited experience and skill with my 12months brewing. Maybe Mad Scientist might be the one to ask.

I use a 65lt pot with with 5500W element from Amazon, the same as on the Electric Brewery. I did get one from eBay originally but what I got wasnt what was pictured in the ad so be careful who you buy from.

I had big plans for doing double batches but so far I havnt done 2 brews the same. 5500w is a bit to much for single batches especially on the boil. Luckily I had put in a dimmer switch to dial it down a bit. A PID would be ideal as the dimmer is not very acurate. But works. I did get a electrician mate to wire it up for me too. I would recommend some kind of temp control. To control the boil and also if you need to bring the mash temp up so the element isnt going at full power.
http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/181287737701?n ... ING_ACTIVE

You will need some kind of false bottom over the top of the element too of course unless you want to be hoisting up a double size bag when you want to adjust the mash temp. I did use an aluminium pizza screen at first but aluminium mesh isnt strong enough. SS screen does the trick.

Im not really sure how far from the bottom you should mount the element but if could do mine over again id put mine as low as I could. Bearing in mind that the curve on the bottom of the pot will bring it up a bit but the weight of the element will bring the end of the element down a bit. Mine is set about an inch from the bottom which is too much. I had thought it would give room for the trub but I dont think its necessary. Once its boiling everything is mixed together. You start whirlpooling/chilling once the element is off. I hope that helps. Ill be keen to see what others say.
"Gentleman, when I first started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a simple dream, and six million pounds.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia

Post #3 made 11 years ago
by nosco
One thing I forgot to mention is that having a bit clearance under the elememt makes it easier to clean. Something to consider.
"Gentleman, when I first started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a simple dream, and six million pounds.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia

Post #4 made 11 years ago
by subl
For me i thought id just turn it off when i hit strike temperature and then when the mash is done pull the bag up with a pully like i do now, im not fussed if the temp drops a couple degress during mash. I am a bit worried the element will be under flour sediment when i try to get it to boiling temperature if i put it too low, i know once it gets boiling it starts mixing itself. Not sure if 4kw will be too strong on the boil side so im guessing i wont need a dimmer.
Anway tnx for input :).

Post #5 made 11 years ago
by mally
I have 2 x 2.4KW elements @ 240V, and find I have to switch one of them on & off during boil (in an 80L pot with at least 60L of wort).
One seems OK but isn't what I would class as vigorous enough, but two seems to be too vigourous.

From my experience then, I would say your element should be powerful enough, but as Nosco mentioned, you may even have to have some form of control, as you are either all on or all off @ 4KW. I am not sure where you are in the world, but in the UK we can use something like a VARIAC (variable transformer) which I guess is the same as Nosco's dimmer.
If I could start again, I would go the route of one single ULWD (ultra low watt density) element with control, but I see you may have problems obtaining them.

The hole in the kettle will determine where the element sits, and you will have at least half the diameter of the hole as clearance to the base (unless the element bends down). So that may be ebough clearance but... :scratch:
During the boil there is a lot of convection currents, basically nothing is still, so that should ensure there is no sediment to burn. Again, as Nosco mentioned, having clearance is a good thing, as you will often need to get access under the element to clean it off.

I also use a pizza screen that has bolts (as feet), but this is to stop the weight of the grain from damaging the elements. Mine looks like......
pizza screen.jpg
It is very sturdy, and I remove it after I pull the bag too.
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Last edited by mally on 22 Feb 2015, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #6 made 11 years ago
by subl
Ok i guess ill get some sort of controler, deosnt seem like it costs too much. I dont see how the weight of the grain could damage the element, once they are in the water they shouldnt weigh that much as they do have some buoyancy and my bag goes all the way to the bottom of the pot but i guess a false bottom could be nice for when i throw the immersion chiller in there.

Tnx.

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by nosco
If you are happy to hoist the grain to adjust the mash temp then I maybe dont worry about the false bottom. You can always get one later.

Being able to adjust your boil will help with your VAW figures but again something you can adjust down the track. I guess it all depends on your resources time/patients/money/skills/etc. I prefer to have it working "well" from the start.

I reckon if you can get an element wired up then adding a dimmer is easy too. But I am dreading the day when my cheap ass dimmer fails and I am left with 30-50lt of un boiled wort. An Auber or similar PID might be on the cards. Or maybe another cheap backup system.
"Gentleman, when I first started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a simple dream, and six million pounds.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by nosco
PS I dont think you can damage the element with the weight of the grain its more a question of keeping the grain off the heat of the element when adjusting mash temps. So if you are gonna hoist then no problem.
I take the "false bottom" out after the mash is finished same as mally. A true false bottom is more for filtering after the mash/boil. In 3v terms I think its only used in the mash tun.
"Gentleman, when I first started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a simple dream, and six million pounds.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 20 Brews From Australia

Post #9 made 11 years ago
by mally
Sorry if I mislead you on the damaging element comment.
What I was referring to was; I have no idea how much downward pressure wet grain will exert when in a liquid, but where you are relying on a silicone gasket as a seal. Any pressure on the element may cause problems at some point? (Who knows but I wouldn't want to risk it).

However, the main reason is that I use a potato masher as a mash paddle. Smashing that thing up and down without knowing exactly where the elements are is not advisable either! :o
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
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