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eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #1 made 12 years ago
by tim_n
Hi All,

I've decided to take the plunge into all grain using a 70l stockpot. Originally I decided I was going to do it on the cheap, but having installed a 32A socket in my garage I realised it was fairly pointless to cheap out on the pot.

The biggest issue is whether to follow US based guides, or compromise with more locally sourced items. The cost of importing from the US is in most cases, the same price as you pay in the UK. Trouble is, much of the supporting gear such as chassis punches can be hard to come by in the UK and I find myself with half metric half imperial.

The PID was from Auber (SYS-2352), SSR+Heatsink from eBay, Camco 5.5kw wave element US Amazon, thermometer, ball valve, temp gauge, sight glass etc all from angelhomebrew - as well as the stockpot.

Paul from Angel Homebrewing is doing the metal work - making the punch holes on my behalf meaning I didn't need to fork out for all the different punches, though it does make me nervous that everything is going to fit!

I got a shim custom laser cut in the UK. I also ordered the nut for the element from eBay. Imported from Hong Kong, I didn't realise it was going to need a NPT fitting, I ordered BSP, so this is now the only element that is likely to hold up the build.

Paul hadn't sold any 70l sight glasses up till now, so didn't have a calibrated sticker for them - so my pot has been the trial pot.

As pics demonstrate, we're currently working out where to put the thermometer where it'll practically have any use - at present on a 5g boil, it'll just about be OK if I keep it centrally over the tap so it'll look the part. Otherwise I'll have to move it to the side - we don't want the handle for the valve to get in the way.

Apologies, images seem to be in reverse order below...
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Post #2 made 12 years ago
by Mad_Scientist
tim_n wrote: Paul hadn't sold any 70l sight glasses up till now, so didn't have a calibrated sticker for them - so my pot has been the trial pot.
Welcome to the forum Tim.

Very nice build pictures. Did you know, the BIABacus would help you calibrate your pot very quickly.

:peace:
MS
Last edited by Mad_Scientist on 18 Dec 2013, 03:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
by tim_n
Mad_Scientist wrote:
tim_n wrote: Paul hadn't sold any 70l sight glasses up till now, so didn't have a calibrated sticker for them - so my pot has been the trial pot.
Welcome to the forum Tim.

Very nice build pictures. Did you know, the BIABacus would help you calibrate your pot very quickly.

:peace:
MS
All credit goes to Paul at the moment! I'm yet to receive the pot. I'm hoping for a pre-christmas delivery - but all for naught if I don't receive an NPT 1" SS nut and o-ring to put the element on with - otherwise all I have is an expensive pot with a big hole in it.

Thanks for repointing out the calculator. With a good look, I've realised how I can adjust my brew for my wheatbeer I'm going to attempt.
Last edited by tim_n on 18 Dec 2013, 04:13, edited 2 times in total.

eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #4 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Few images of the control panel build.

This is a repurposed old server.
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Cutting hole for PID. Initial version is going to be very basic.


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32A socket fitted (blue). XLR for sensor. Mains cable will run direct to switched 32A socket which is RCD protected. I intend to put in a DPST when I find a high enough rated one.
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Inside view.
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Last edited by tim_n on 29 Dec 2013, 06:03, edited 2 times in total.

Post #5 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Finished the build yesterday and whilst finished too late to have a brew (though we did have a nice cold Erdinger instead to celebrate) we did bring some water to the boil to see how long it took.

My current recipe using the calculation spreadsheet from this site said I needed 33ltr for a 5 gallon brew.

Temperature was a nice balmy 9'C in the garage. It took about 17 minutes to raise it to 20'C. It took a further 37.5 minutes to bring it to boiling. It may have been a bit quicker, my manual thermometer hadn't been properly calibrated.

My PT100 probe had a major problem - it wasn't a PT100 probe (hence some of the extra time in construction - we wondered why it was reading the temperate as -149'C) - it was infact a K probe. Even once set up and calibrated, its accuracy was very poor, eventually loosing 15'C by the time the water had hit 100'C.

I've got a lot more pictures but my phone is playing up - you can see them here http://www.waark.com/2013/12/ebiab-4/ or read my full build here: http://www.waark.com/tag/ebiab/
Last edited by tim_n on 31 Dec 2013, 05:28, edited 2 times in total.

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Thomas!

Good luck

I'm about to rewire mine with 4mm cable. If you're in the UK I recommend using two 2.2kw elements instead - it's probably easier and probably wouldn't need the PID or most of the complications!

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by Goat Boy
Hello Tim. Watching this with interest as I'm about to follow down a similar route. Have my 70l Bergland pot and was naively hoping I'd be able to boil full length batches on my elec hob, what what with the size of the bleeder spanning two rings!
Tried a test boil of just 15l and two things became apparent.. First was my hob isn't man enough as it took an hour to reach 97 deg, as such I've resigned myself to going down the 2x Tesco value kettle element route as you suggest.

Second issue I encountered was with the pot itself. The weld that runs right around the bottom of the pot and holds the formed base onto the sides had developed signs of rust where it was submerged during the test boil. Looks like a ring of rust spots running right the way around the inside where welding penetration has come through and been ground away to leave it smooth. Tested this with a magnet and sure enough, no grab on the sides or base but the weld between them is ferrous to some degree and actually holding a magnet up. Raised this with the outfit who sold me the pot only to be told this MAY be the norm and not to worry.

Was going to return for a replacement but don't want to pay all the postage just to swap like for like.
Assuming yours is the standard 70l Bergland (approx £70) could you do me the favour of seeing if yours is magnetic at the weld site about an inch or so up from the bottom? Would be interesting to see if I've got a rogue one.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Best regards. G B

eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #9 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Goat Boy wrote:Hello Tim. Watching this with interest as I'm about to follow down a similar route. Have my 70l Bergland pot and was naively hoping I'd be able to boil full length batches on my elec hob, what what with the size of the bleeder spanning two rings!
Tried a test boil of just 15l and two things became apparent.. First was my hob isn't man enough as it took an hour to reach 97 deg, as such I've resigned myself to going down the 2x Tesco value kettle element route as you suggest.

Second issue I encountered was with the pot itself. The weld that runs right around the bottom of the pot and holds the formed base onto the sides had developed signs of rust where it was submerged during the test boil. Looks like a ring of rust spots running right the way around the inside where welding penetration has come through and been ground away to leave it smooth. Tested this with a magnet and sure enough, no grab on the sides or base but the weld between them is ferrous to some degree and actually holding a magnet up. Raised this with the outfit who sold me the pot only to be told this MAY be the norm and not to worry.

Was going to return for a replacement but don't want to pay all the postage just to swap like for like.
Assuming yours is the standard 70l Bergland (approx £70) could you do me the favour of seeing if yours is magnetic at the weld site about an inch or so up from the bottom? Would be interesting to see if I've got a rogue one.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Best regards. G B
Not sure what mine is, it's the 70l from angel brew, but no ring of rust, though I've noticed some spots on the base, so I've brought it into the house.

I tried a boil today - if you're going down the PID route, I'd recommend getting your bits off a reputable place. My SSR is stuck on on, and the new PT100 leaked (as in the actual probe not the fitting). Not a happy camper as I was about to brew the APA off the site.

Boo.

Down the pub now consoling myself!

Only aluminium isn't magnetic?

Stainless steel is very vaguely magnetic.
Last edited by tim_n on 12 Jan 2014, 22:12, edited 2 times in total.

Post #10 made 11 years ago
by Goat Boy
Bad times! At least it got you down the boozer for a bit. Silver linings and all that.
Did you get your bits from eBay then? Sounds like you've touched about as lucky with your kit as I did. Ha ha.

If the 304 stainless in these pots has any magnetic properties then they're so slight as to not be noticeable. This dodgy weld I have round mine is actually hoding a decent sized magnet up. Very weird. Don't want to start drilling the thing for elements etc only to find out that it's a rummun which needs to go back when it turns out all the others out there are fine.

Hey ho. Whatever I do I'll be keeping an eye on your build and nicking all your ideas! :thumbs:
Cheers mate.
G.B.

Post #11 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Goat Boy wrote:Bad times! At least it got you down the boozer for a bit. Silver linings and all that.
Did you get your bits from eBay then? Sounds like you've touched about as lucky with your kit as I did. Ha ha.

If the 304 stainless in these pots has any magnetic properties then they're so slight as to not be noticeable. This dodgy weld I have round mine is actually hoding a decent sized magnet up. Very weird. Don't want to start drilling the thing for elements etc only to find out that it's a rummun which needs to go back when it turns out all the others out there are fine.

Hey ho. Whatever I do I'll be keeping an eye on your build and nicking all your ideas! :thumbs:
Cheers mate.
G.B.
Yes was a bit of a pain.

Have just placed an order on Auber for new SSR, plus a rated heatsink (I'm wondering whether it was the passive heatsink I got that did for my SSR). I'll see if there's any difference in size/quality over my cheap £7 one that might have accounted for my SSR death.

I've also ordered a new PT100 weldless kit. It's a 2" probe, but is disconnectable.
Last edited by tim_n on 13 Jan 2014, 19:34, edited 2 times in total.

eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #12 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
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Yes, my fotec(?) SSR may have somewhat overheated. Or it could just of been rubbish. I can't tell as I won't be buying another - getting the one from Auber with a much better heatsink.

To those who come across this post through Google when looking for "what heatsink does my 40A SSR need" the answer is a big one because it gets very, very hot. One 37 minute boil is enough to kill it on a 5.5kw element draw.
Last edited by tim_n on 14 Jan 2014, 04:15, edited 2 times in total.

Post #13 made 11 years ago
by thughes
There's no substitute for the Auber PID, too bad about the probe and the SSR (looks like all of the smoke leaked out of it). I used that monster-sized heatsink that Auber sells when I built my system. Keep us posted Tim.

---Todd
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Last edited by thughes on 14 Jan 2014, 04:17, edited 2 times in total.
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eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #14 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
thughes wrote:There's no substitute for the Auber PID, too bad about the probe and the SSR (looks like all of the smoke leaked out of it). I used that monster-sized heatsink that Auber sells when I built my system. Keep us posted Tim.

---Todd
Image
Yes that's the one I've ordered but the heatsink isn't a monster! My friend has just ordered one from RS components in the uk (not tapped) and it was huge! At least double the size - funnily enough he was the one who said "it shouldn't generate much heat"

After he saw mine was enough to cook an egg on, I think he changed his mind.
Last edited by tim_n on 14 Jan 2014, 04:31, edited 2 times in total.

eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #16 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Right, finally got round to fitting the new SSR and heatsink.

So, by about midday, it was time to start brewing.

Made the Amarillo APA for my first BIAB and did it by the numbers.

End result 23ltrs into the fermenter. I used hop socks, so the hot/cold break went into the fermenter too. Protofloc 5mins before end. Achieved 1.058 @ 24'C.

All grain, hops and yeast from the malt miller.

Grains and hops went on the compost bin. Nothing wasted!

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Tomorrow we're fitting the new sensor and going for a wheat beer.
Last edited by tim_n on 26 Jan 2014, 04:59, edited 2 times in total.

Post #17 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
Nice, Thanks for the running photo shoot. Keep going with it. We will follow your journey.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #18 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
BobBrews wrote:Nice, Thanks for the running photo shoot. Keep going with it. We will follow your journey.
Thanks Bob.

Today we did the wheatbeer.

Sadly I didn't quite make the efficiency on the BIABacus - should have been 1.058, previous brewers reported 1.052, I achieved 1.048.

I didn't do the stepped dicoction though and the mash temperature wasn't as stable as I'd like. I misread the sheet striked at 68 instead of 70. I then had to pull the grain out, turn on the element to raise it back up to the mash temperature of 68. Temperature dropped over half an hour to 66, I raised it up again to 69, dropped over the hour to 66 again.

Some have suggested I keep the sleeping bag in the house as that is obviously absorbing some heat (I'm using it to wrap the pot). I double wrap with my fleece lined coat.

The flavour was spot on though, as was the volumes therefore I'm assuming either the dicoction or the unstable mash temperature.

I have a bit of a problem with the yeast, I used a WLP300, however I made a bit of a mistake by not taking it out 3-6hrs in advance. I pitched @ 22'C, so I'm hoping there's no temperature shock with the yeast. Also the yeast wasn't refrigerated early enough when received - I did a sniff test, nothing seemed off, no vinegary smells, so I've pitched and we'll see what happens.

I have a backup vial, I bought some more when I did a visit to the malt miller just in case - my wife can repitch as I'm off over the next few days.
Last edited by tim_n on 27 Jan 2014, 04:20, edited 2 times in total.

Post #19 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
tim_n,

Don't fret over missing numbers. At least not by small amounts. As our system gets more ingrained in you and you have more hands on experience. The numbers will fall in line and you may be spot on more times than not? Even when you do everything perfectly the same. The beers will all have their own personalities.

Yes, you can kill yeast with to hot of wort. You can shock or stunt yeast with wort to cold of a temp. You can have yeast that's past it prime and lags. You may have a good yeast but with a wort with little oxygen or nutrients so it falters. You can have a combination of all of this to slow a fermentation?

But all in all. You will have some beer and that's the most important thing. It may not be perfect, but it's perfectly better than a bloke who can't brew!! :drink:
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

eBiab - UK Stockpot conversion

Post #20 made 11 years ago
by tim_n
Cheers for the reply bob!

Got a text from the wife that both fermenters are bubbling away equally - one has a bit of a head start, so if they're equal then it sounds fine.

Means I've still got a spare vial of Yeast for the next batch, though I want to see how it turns out before going for another on the same recipe.

I think wheat beers have to be drunk fairly young, and I was aiming to take some with me camping in August (I'm aiming to take several kegs with me to setup a bar), so looks like I'll be doing an interim brew just for me.
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