Hi. I am hoping to get a bit of feedback and advice. If I tell you my plans perhaps some people may care to give me they're opinions and thoughts.
I am hoping to make a boiler out of a 25L fermentation bucket fitted with 2 x 1kw kettle elements, these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1694wt_754
When completed it should look something like this one:
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/view ... =6&t=23152
I plan to use insulating material to help maintain temperature for mashing.
what Iv noticed is that unlike in the UK where these sort of diy boiler set ups are popular, most of the Australian guides appear to be for either gas boilers or converted tea urn's. I think 2kw should be enough to head the water, especially if the boiler is well insulated. I plan to make some sort of false bottom to sit above the elements to keep the bag away from them.
So, that's my idea. Please give me your thoughts.
Cheers.
Post #2 made 16 years ago
i too toyed with idea of a plastic boiler. in the end, i bought an urn of sorts.
I think that the plastic bucket or blue drum http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/view ... &sk=t&sd=a
will not hold up to the boiling temps for more that a few brews. I also hate to think of the chemicals that might be bleeding into my beer.
that's just my 0.02$
I think that the plastic bucket or blue drum http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/view ... &sk=t&sd=a
will not hold up to the boiling temps for more that a few brews. I also hate to think of the chemicals that might be bleeding into my beer.
that's just my 0.02$
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #3 made 16 years ago
Thanks for the input mate. Thing is with something like that blue bucket is the sheer size of it! I just dont have the room :x .
That's why I need as smaller setup as possible. I'm happy if it only lasts afew brews because its cost me practically nothing to do. If I take to it I may invest in better stuff but for now Its just a bit of an experiment.
What is the maximum amount of beer I will be able to brew using the biab technique with a 25l boiler? What do I need to take into account? So far Iv thought about loss due to wort being absorbed my the grain and hops. Obviously the grain will take up space in so I wont be able to boil a full 25L or the water would be displaced by it......
That's why I need as smaller setup as possible. I'm happy if it only lasts afew brews because its cost me practically nothing to do. If I take to it I may invest in better stuff but for now Its just a bit of an experiment.
What is the maximum amount of beer I will be able to brew using the biab technique with a 25l boiler? What do I need to take into account? So far Iv thought about loss due to wort being absorbed my the grain and hops. Obviously the grain will take up space in so I wont be able to boil a full 25L or the water would be displaced by it......
Post #4 made 16 years ago
Hello peacock_suit, I think what you are describing with the plastic buckets is, what's termed here in Oz, "Bucket o' Death"
Not a road I would go down, but then I managed to score a 50 litre stainless boiler for free.
As to what you can do with a 25 litre boiler have a read of the mini BIAB guide, Ralph has done an excellent job putting this together and he constantly makes large batches in a small pot.
Cheers and good luck.
Not a road I would go down, but then I managed to score a 50 litre stainless boiler for free.
As to what you can do with a 25 litre boiler have a read of the mini BIAB guide, Ralph has done an excellent job putting this together and he constantly makes large batches in a small pot.
Cheers and good luck.
Last edited by hashie on 13 Sep 2010, 06:16, edited 10 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #5 made 16 years ago
Welcome to the forum PS 
,
Firstly, I like the way you're thinking. It's always great to see someone putting a lot of thought into brewing projects. You might be a bit like me though and get totally absorbed with one idea. I have done this an embarrassing amount of times and have a whole room full of projects that seemed good at the time. One or two of these worked but most ended up costing me way much more time and money than existing ideas.
One of these ideas was to mash, boil and ferment in a single vessel - still possible but I won't be doing it in plastic though that was my original idea.
I suspect that this project of yours could be like most of mine. To me, they look simple but by the time you find and buy all the fiddly bits and pieces, it has turned into a nightmare and the end result is not that great anyway. Even if the overall idea is sound, it is all the bits and pieces and the problems of sourcing them (initially) and sanitising them (later) that cause a lot of grief. It has taken me years to realise that my simple ideas very rarely work out 
.
You can buy plastic kettles already made - not sure where from memory but they do exist. It might be easier though to hunt these down than build one from scratch. I also, like shibolet, would be suspicious of these and I can't really see it as being a good long-term solution.
I think BeachBum's idea is great and you should definitley read up on Ralph's method as it will give you top quality beer very easily. A large aluminium kettle and burner are also a possibility even with space restrictions. Space has often been an issue for me and I even used to put my fermenter in my kettle whilst it was fermenting adding freezer blocks to maintain the fermentation temp during summer! This was fine.
I really enjoy projects like yours while I am doing them but have often been dissapointed afterwards (a bit like new girlfriends). So, if you can (I never do), re-think this one a bit more. Do Ralph's method first maybe. He has done countless brews using that method. Or come up with clever space saving ideas or source an electric urn.
As I said though, I really like your thinking. Even the simple new ideas take a hell of a lot of work and a massive amount of thinking. For example, for years I've always wanted a stainless steel auto-sypon but gave up on thinking and making one as I didn't have the resources such as SS welding skills. wizard78 has these skills and resources and has now made a beauty. But, this has taken hours of time and skill for him to create it and it will take many more hours for him to work out a way to manufacture them without him doing it as being a favour to the rest of us brewers - in other words, each one of them costing him ridiculously in time.
Sorry about the long post but I am really hoping someone like you will come up with a way of cleaning my kegs while I am asleep.
All the best,
PP
P.S. Also, hashie's comment on "bucket of death" is worth considering. Electrics and liquids can lead to life-long problems even though they may only last a second.
,Firstly, I like the way you're thinking. It's always great to see someone putting a lot of thought into brewing projects. You might be a bit like me though and get totally absorbed with one idea. I have done this an embarrassing amount of times and have a whole room full of projects that seemed good at the time
. One or two of these worked but most ended up costing me way much more time and money than existing ideas.One of these ideas was to mash, boil and ferment in a single vessel - still possible but I won't be doing it in plastic though that was my original idea.
I suspect that this project of yours could be like most of mine. To me, they look simple but by the time you find and buy all the fiddly bits and pieces, it has turned into a nightmare and the end result is not that great anyway
. Even if the overall idea is sound, it is all the bits and pieces and the problems of sourcing them (initially) and sanitising them (later) that cause a lot of grief. It has taken me years to realise that my simple ideas very rarely work out .You can buy plastic kettles already made - not sure where from memory but they do exist. It might be easier though to hunt these down than build one from scratch. I also, like shibolet, would be suspicious of these and I can't really see it as being a good long-term solution.
I think BeachBum's idea is great and you should definitley read up on Ralph's method as it will give you top quality beer very easily. A large aluminium kettle and burner are also a possibility even with space restrictions. Space has often been an issue for me and I even used to put my fermenter in my kettle whilst it was fermenting adding freezer blocks to maintain the fermentation temp during summer! This was fine.
I really enjoy projects like yours while I am doing them but have often been dissapointed afterwards (a bit like new girlfriends
). So, if you can (I never do), re-think this one a bit more. Do Ralph's method first maybe. He has done countless brews using that method. Or come up with clever space saving ideas or source an electric urn.As I said though, I really like your thinking. Even the simple new ideas take a hell of a lot of work and a massive amount of thinking. For example, for years I've always wanted a stainless steel auto-sypon but gave up on thinking and making one as I didn't have the resources such as SS welding skills. wizard78 has these skills and resources and has now made a beauty. But, this has taken hours of time and skill for him to create it and it will take many more hours for him to work out a way to manufacture them without him doing it as being a favour to the rest of us brewers - in other words, each one of them costing him ridiculously in time.
Sorry about the long post but I am really hoping someone like you will come up with a way of cleaning my kegs while I am asleep
.All the best,
PP
P.S. Also, hashie's comment on "bucket of death" is worth considering. Electrics and liquids can lead to life-long problems even though they may only last a second
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Post #6 made 16 years ago
Cheers for the reply mate. Some good points well made there.
I think the main thing to remember here is that in the UK, the diy boiler (kettle o' death) route is quite popular.
Cannibalising kettles for elements is common place. Therefore our forums have lots of useful info on what can potentially go wrong and how to minimise risks to keep things as safe as possible. In Aus on the other hand gas fired stainless steel options seem to be preferred.
The ready made plastic kettles are pretty much just a fermentation bucket with a kettle element in. Other than the built in thermostat they are not that much different than what I will hopefully build.
I have only brewed store bought kits so far. My next brew will be an 'extract brew' using dry Malt Extract and various hops. I planned to make the DIY boiler for this anyway. Again, common place in the UK as a progression away form kit brewing.......
My main problem with my plan to use the boiler for biab (as far as I can tell) is the amount of beer Id end up with using the 25l boiler. Even the ready made kettle/boilers you can buy from home-brew stores are 25l.
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... oiler.html
I looked at the calculator from this forum but I don't have a clue how to use it :oops: . I will have to sit down and have proper look at it when I get some time.....
I'm not dismissing the points that have been raised so far, iv taken them all on board. They have been helpful!
However, I see no reason why it couldn’t be done in a plastic boiler. I'm not concerned about longevity of the setup at the moment, it will be so cheap to put together that it’s worth it just for an experiment to run a few brews through.
Please feel free to offer any more input.
John.
I think the main thing to remember here is that in the UK, the diy boiler (kettle o' death) route is quite popular.
Cannibalising kettles for elements is common place. Therefore our forums have lots of useful info on what can potentially go wrong and how to minimise risks to keep things as safe as possible. In Aus on the other hand gas fired stainless steel options seem to be preferred.
The ready made plastic kettles are pretty much just a fermentation bucket with a kettle element in. Other than the built in thermostat they are not that much different than what I will hopefully build.
I have only brewed store bought kits so far. My next brew will be an 'extract brew' using dry Malt Extract and various hops. I planned to make the DIY boiler for this anyway. Again, common place in the UK as a progression away form kit brewing.......
My main problem with my plan to use the boiler for biab (as far as I can tell) is the amount of beer Id end up with using the 25l boiler. Even the ready made kettle/boilers you can buy from home-brew stores are 25l.
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... oiler.html
I looked at the calculator from this forum but I don't have a clue how to use it :oops: . I will have to sit down and have proper look at it when I get some time.....
I'm not dismissing the points that have been raised so far, iv taken them all on board. They have been helpful!
However, I see no reason why it couldn’t be done in a plastic boiler. I'm not concerned about longevity of the setup at the moment, it will be so cheap to put together that it’s worth it just for an experiment to run a few brews through.
Please feel free to offer any more input.
John.
Post #7 made 16 years ago
Hi again John ,
Maybe Ralph's guide here could get you around the 25 L limitation?
If you need a hand with The Calculator, just post to this thread and someone will sort you out.
If we don't hear from you again, we'll assume you went ahead with the project but something went horribly wrong so let us know how you go.
PP
,Maybe Ralph's guide here could get you around the 25 L limitation?
If you need a hand with The Calculator, just post to this thread and someone will sort you out.
If we don't hear from you again, we'll assume you went ahead with the project but something went horribly wrong so let us know how you go.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 20 Sep 2010, 17:05, edited 10 times in total.
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Post #8 made 16 years ago
Yep, that's right PP MaxiBIAB should give better yield from a smaller kettle AFAIK. However, I've not tried it with an urn but I do have a 20L Langco which I want to try it out in. Just a matter of time...
Good luck and let us know how it goes John! :D
Good luck and let us know how it goes John! :D
Last edited by Ralph on 20 Sep 2010, 18:23, edited 10 times in total.
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Post #9 made 16 years ago
Cheers fellas. I'l check out the links later today.
I think I will end up buying a much larger bucket having read a but more into the technique. You can get 60l bins for £20....no brainier really :oops:.
I think I will end up buying a much larger bucket having read a but more into the technique. You can get 60l bins for £20....no brainier really :oops:.
Post #10 made 16 years ago
Peacock
As you would know well, your proposed setup is a slightly beefier version of a Bruheat Boiler http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/acatalo ... ___18.htmlwhich has been around in the UK since the 1970s. I owned one when I lived in Cardiff and made some great beers. Of course the idea of BIAB didn't occur to them at the time - and even Dave Line recommended a bag to make grain removal easier at the end of sparging, but the penny didn't actually drop at the time
There's nothing wrong with using plastic, and probably safer than metal for a DIY project. My Bruheat followed me to Australia and lived an additional 2 years before the element went. I'd definitely go for the project, and it would be simpler than a Bruheat because really the thermostat control is superfluous as long as you can just keep an eye on the temperature using a probe thermometer. Personally I wouldn't even bother with a temperature dial fitted thermometer, just a hand held probe, and run the thing full bore - 2kw should be just about adequate for a rolling boil. For mashing, just raise strike water to about 68-70 degrees or whatever recipe calls for, switch off and dough in then wrap in a feather duvet or sleeping bags and Bobs yer.
Edit: visiting brewers find this somewhat unsettling as if I'm experimenting with mummies or something...."what the hell is THAT? "
As you would know well, your proposed setup is a slightly beefier version of a Bruheat Boiler http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/acatalo ... ___18.htmlwhich has been around in the UK since the 1970s. I owned one when I lived in Cardiff and made some great beers. Of course the idea of BIAB didn't occur to them at the time - and even Dave Line recommended a bag to make grain removal easier at the end of sparging, but the penny didn't actually drop at the time
There's nothing wrong with using plastic, and probably safer than metal for a DIY project. My Bruheat followed me to Australia and lived an additional 2 years before the element went. I'd definitely go for the project, and it would be simpler than a Bruheat because really the thermostat control is superfluous as long as you can just keep an eye on the temperature using a probe thermometer. Personally I wouldn't even bother with a temperature dial fitted thermometer, just a hand held probe, and run the thing full bore - 2kw should be just about adequate for a rolling boil. For mashing, just raise strike water to about 68-70 degrees or whatever recipe calls for, switch off and dough in then wrap in a feather duvet or sleeping bags and Bobs yer.
Edit: visiting brewers find this somewhat unsettling as if I'm experimenting with mummies or something...."what the hell is THAT? "
Last edited by Beachbum on 25 Sep 2010, 10:24, edited 10 times in total.
Post #11 made 16 years ago
Beachbum, what capacity is your boiler? Iv scrapped the idea of using a smaller one now and shall use a 60l. It may be powered with a 3KW immersion heater element. What powers yours?
I experimented with cheap Tesco (a British supermarket chain) kettles on a 25l bucket but I was not happy enough with it to use it for a 90 minute boil. To dodgy imo. The 1kw elements I bought look of a much better design but I couldn't find a drill bit or hole cutter of the right size to fit them. 1 9/16th's! I hate imperial measurements. Bloody silly if you ask me!
I only plan to make standard 5 gallon batches in my new 60l boiler, so even with the grain bill and all the water in the boiler it shouldn't be anywhere near capacity. Do you think I would be able to get away with the 2 x 1KW elements instead of the immersion element?
Cheers.
I experimented with cheap Tesco (a British supermarket chain) kettles on a 25l bucket but I was not happy enough with it to use it for a 90 minute boil. To dodgy imo. The 1kw elements I bought look of a much better design but I couldn't find a drill bit or hole cutter of the right size to fit them. 1 9/16th's! I hate imperial measurements. Bloody silly if you ask me!
I only plan to make standard 5 gallon batches in my new 60l boiler, so even with the grain bill and all the water in the boiler it shouldn't be anywhere near capacity. Do you think I would be able to get away with the 2 x 1KW elements instead of the immersion element?
Cheers.
Post #12 made 16 years ago
Peacock, I make 23L or five Imperial gallon brews, and mine is a 40L electric urn similar to (but larger than) the Burco urns in the UK (I assume you are in the UK?) and has a 2.4 kw element. If you can run 3kw on one circuit you should do fine - however I don't know what the circuits are in the UK. Here, normal household circuits to the power points are 10 amp. To run something 3 kw we have to get an electrician to put in a 15 amp circuit. However I know that plugs etc are different in the UK so you might want to give an electrician a ring and get an opinion.
Or at risk of blowing something, maybe plug in a 2 kw electric fan heater and an electric kettle on the same circuit and see if it trips the safety switch :twisted: :twisted:
However I still think that 2kw would probably do the job for a rolling boil just running it flat out. My urn has a temperature dial that goes up to 110 and I find that around 95 it will give a good boil but cuts out for a couple of minutes then cuts back in, so the boil is not too fierce, so even with 2.5k on 10 amps it's not labouring at all.
I'd ring a sparky first and find out, or if you have one in the family
Cheers
Michael
Or at risk of blowing something, maybe plug in a 2 kw electric fan heater and an electric kettle on the same circuit and see if it trips the safety switch :twisted: :twisted:
However I still think that 2kw would probably do the job for a rolling boil just running it flat out. My urn has a temperature dial that goes up to 110 and I find that around 95 it will give a good boil but cuts out for a couple of minutes then cuts back in, so the boil is not too fierce, so even with 2.5k on 10 amps it's not labouring at all.
I'd ring a sparky first and find out, or if you have one in the family
Cheers
Michael
Post #13 made 16 years ago
Standard sockets are 13a rated in the uk. However a 'ring main' as often found in Kitchens is 30a. All the circuits in our house are RCD protected.
Post #14 made 16 years ago
Good one, I really think that 13a should run a 3kw setup then - I would happily go with that.
cheers
Michael
cheers
Michael
