I got a question for you guys on tact.
Earlier this week a guy on Northernbrewer.com asked about BIAB and was met with some really good comments and also some not very nice comments. And a conversation that was somewhat heated and really felt condescending towards BIAB followed.
Than today there is a guy on there asking about an AG recipe and saying how he would need a bigger pot and grain bag to steep the grains in. (sounds like BIAB right?) The responses were all along the lines of him being in over his head and sending him an extract recipes etc...No one mentioned BIAB (yet).
What do you guys think is the right way to go. Tell him about BIAB on the forum and about this site and not care what the naysayers think?, or should I just leave it alone?
Post #2 made 16 years ago
I would just link to this sight, let him know it's a friendly, helpful environment that aims to make great, even some award winning beer simple. I wouldn't be to concerned about naysayers, that will just prove the point of biabrewer being friendly.
[center]"All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]
[/center]
[center]Homer Simpson[/center]
[center]K.I.S.S., B.I.A.B.[/center]
Post #3 made 16 years ago
I agree with Wizard, don't worry about the naysayers and just send /post a link to here. So long as you are not condescending of the 3v brewers I don't think anyone would complain about the link.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #5 made 16 years ago
Yeah, there's nothing quite like 3V bigots, hey? If you're really concerned about a poor response from a public post then message the OPer direct, if not, then I'd post, "Sounds to me like some of the BIAB techniques could be helpful, this site has some useful resources for brewers wanting to try All Grain: biabrewer.info .", or something along those lines.
Don't be put off by negative attacks from the anti- BIAB bigots, they are everywhere and just focus on what you feel suits you, while advise others/ share your own experiences where you see fit. Here's an example (last para) of one quite well- known author who should've really known better and didn't do his reputation any favours by attacking Australians and BIAB all in one go, now looks like a complete *rsehole IMO and I refuse to endorse his recipes or buy his books.
Don't be put off by negative attacks from the anti- BIAB bigots, they are everywhere and just focus on what you feel suits you, while advise others/ share your own experiences where you see fit. Here's an example (last para) of one quite well- known author who should've really known better and didn't do his reputation any favours by attacking Australians and BIAB all in one go, now looks like a complete *rsehole IMO and I refuse to endorse his recipes or buy his books.
Last edited by Ralph on 13 Nov 2010, 09:28, edited 5 times in total.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #6 made 16 years ago
wow that was a bad comment. Anyway I went ahead and posted it right there on the board because if I believe in it than I don't care what others may think. The funniest thing about the link I was talking about earlier was that it ended with everyone agreeing that their hernia injuries were just too much to worry about lifting a bag.
Post #7 made 16 years ago
Good on you jrodie! 
The thing that amuses me is that most of the BIAB negativity is based on ill- conceived arm- chair hypothesising, most of the factors that are supposedly insurmountable are in fact of no significance whatsoever or inconsequential. When someone with a few brains and is up for a challenge actually tries these different ideas and then finds out that the beer is actually pretty good while all those supposed problems actually equate to naught, then these critics do start to look a lot like fools.
I'm all for standing corrected, no problems there at all, but to get stuck into someone without actually trying it themselves to be sure, ignoring the experiences of those who have, or without citing literature which is reviewed and accepted by peers (i.e. published in a journal), well that's when I lose interest, in the end its not much different from feeding the trolls. More often than not you'll note I'm just sharing my experiences rather than engaging in debate, having been there and tried something even once (and maybe even failed) is often much more valuable than hours of intense theoretical discussion. Anyway, the important thing is that you're happy with what you're doing and it produces the goods for you, even better if there's a few other enlightened folk who happen to agree with you and support what you're doing.
(Oops, sorry about the rant...
)
Hernia injuries? Jeez they must be thinking big- a bag with 5kg of wet grain is <10kg, but then there's cord, eyebolts, pulleys, cleats etc to make it easier, I once even saw one guy with an dedicated electric winch, IIRC he was a bit frail but where there's a will, there's a way!
The thing that amuses me is that most of the BIAB negativity is based on ill- conceived arm- chair hypothesising, most of the factors that are supposedly insurmountable are in fact of no significance whatsoever or inconsequential. When someone with a few brains and is up for a challenge actually tries these different ideas and then finds out that the beer is actually pretty good while all those supposed problems actually equate to naught, then these critics do start to look a lot like fools.
I'm all for standing corrected, no problems there at all, but to get stuck into someone without actually trying it themselves to be sure, ignoring the experiences of those who have, or without citing literature which is reviewed and accepted by peers (i.e. published in a journal), well that's when I lose interest, in the end its not much different from feeding the trolls. More often than not you'll note I'm just sharing my experiences rather than engaging in debate, having been there and tried something even once (and maybe even failed) is often much more valuable than hours of intense theoretical discussion. Anyway, the important thing is that you're happy with what you're doing and it produces the goods for you, even better if there's a few other enlightened folk who happen to agree with you and support what you're doing.
(Oops, sorry about the rant...
)Hernia injuries? Jeez they must be thinking big- a bag with 5kg of wet grain is <10kg, but then there's cord, eyebolts, pulleys, cleats etc to make it easier, I once even saw one guy with an dedicated electric winch, IIRC he was a bit frail but where there's a will, there's a way!
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #8 made 16 years ago
All is well that ends well, no one had anything bad to say about BIAB this time. And actually reading back on the posts from the first thread most were very civil and even pro-BIAB just a few bad seeds. Funny how that can change the whole mood when your in the moment.
Post #9 made 16 years ago
I've had exactly the same problems on Jimsbeerkit in the UK, and from a thread I started a ex-mod with 8500 thousand posts ended up getting banned because his attitude and manner were so bad in talking about BIAB.
It turns out that there are quite a few people actually using the technique, just the actual BIAB name is not known to a lot of them.
Stick with it and
the begrudgers.
It turns out that there are quite a few people actually using the technique, just the actual BIAB name is not known to a lot of them.
Stick with it and
the begrudgers.http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.
Post #10 made 16 years ago
Bumping this thread back up.
I've just been into a HBS to buy some Malt for a SMaSH and got talking to the owner, I mentioned that because I was a novice brewer I was going to BIAB as it looked like a good method to get into AG without all the hassle of 3V and compicated set ups. To be honest I may have well as been talking Klingon!!
"Won't work will give you a rubbish beer" was the jist of the reply..
Well proof is in the pudding as they say, so I said I'll be back in mid Feb with a couple of bottles to prove them wrong. Just hope I can do myself justice and not let the BIAB side down.
I've just been into a HBS to buy some Malt for a SMaSH and got talking to the owner, I mentioned that because I was a novice brewer I was going to BIAB as it looked like a good method to get into AG without all the hassle of 3V and compicated set ups. To be honest I may have well as been talking Klingon!!
"Won't work will give you a rubbish beer" was the jist of the reply..
Well proof is in the pudding as they say, so I said I'll be back in mid Feb with a couple of bottles to prove them wrong. Just hope I can do myself justice and not let the BIAB side down.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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- SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #11 made 16 years ago
Cheers! Good luck.
I (very poorly and half-assed) pimp BIAB on HBT and make sure to mention that I actually have a proper MLT and still prefer BIAB. I really don't see any downsides to the method.
I (very poorly and half-assed) pimp BIAB on HBT and make sure to mention that I actually have a proper MLT and still prefer BIAB. I really don't see any downsides to the method.
Post #12 made 16 years ago
Ignorance is bliss, they say.
I think arrogance is an ass, this is what I get from most nay-sayers.
Closed minded people are just arrogant.
I think arrogance is an ass, this is what I get from most nay-sayers.
Closed minded people are just arrogant.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #13 made 16 years ago
Don't worry Yeasty, it is only one HBS but also remember the team has been collecting a few gongs, so the weight of the world's expectations aren't on your shoulders alone! By all means give it your best shot thoughYeasty wrote:Well proof is in the pudding as they say, so I said I'll be back in mid Feb with a couple of bottles to prove them wrong. Just hope I can do myself justice and not let the BIAB side down.
Last edited by Ralph on 23 Dec 2010, 05:51, edited 5 times in total.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #14 made 15 years ago
Ha! Seriously, I believe that was me that started the thread on the N.B forum that got all the negative feedback.I was just trying to ask an honest question and got hounded by one guy that is very hard headed and believes that his way of brewing is the only way.jrodie wrote:I got a question for you guys on tact.
Earlier this week a guy on Northernbrewer.com asked about BIAB and was met with some really good comments and also some not very nice comments. And a conversation that was somewhat heated and really felt condescending towards BIAB followed.
Than today there is a guy on there asking about an AG recipe and saying how he would need a bigger pot and grain bag to steep the grains in. (sounds like BIAB right?) The responses were all along the lines of him being in over his head and sending him an extract recipes etc...No one mentioned BIAB (yet).
What do you guys think is the right way to go. Tell him about BIAB on the forum and about this site and not care what the naysayers think?, or should I just leave it alone?
I believe that guy is banned from N.Bs forum.I havent seen him on there.Go figure!
Last edited by mvolz on 04 Apr 2011, 02:00, edited 5 times in total.
Post #15 made 15 years ago
Most of my brews have been kits ordered from NB and they have worked well with biab. I personally think it would be smart of the homebrew industry to start people on small scale BIAB instead of extract brewing. People would have a little less beer but it would be much better, and they could still do it on their stove tops. If the customers wanted to move up to the 5 gallon batches most people start with now, they could buy the extra equipment at that point.
Post #16 made 15 years ago
Perhaps you're not familiar with Maxi-BIAB? (5gal batches on just a domestic stove in 19L stockpot.) Granted, Mini-BIAB is probably a better place for a novice to start, but not necessarily so.jrodie wrote:Most of my brews have been kits ordered from NB and they have worked well with biab. I personally think it would be smart of the homebrew industry to start people on small scale BIAB instead of extract brewing. People would have a little less beer but it would be much better, and they could still do it on their stove tops. If the customers wanted to move up to the 5 gallon batches most people start with now, they could buy the extra equipment at that point.
I agree with you though, it would be far more constructive bypass extract altogether, it is a world of unnecessary pain for novices- comparatively speaking, BIAB is still quite simple and costs less in all its various forms and variants compared to multi- vessel.
Last edited by Ralph on 07 Apr 2011, 04:10, edited 5 times in total.
[center]Give me a beer and I will move the world. Archimedes[/center]
Post #17 made 15 years ago
Personally, I think a lot of the "traditional" 3v brewers are just jealous that we can make competitive (and sometimes better!) brew with 1/3 of the equipment they have. :-)
Brew, blues and blood.
Post #18 made 15 years ago
When I was first interested in BIAB I read the AHB thread where PP and a few other guys were doing the original experiments that started it all off. It is a bit inspirational to read about the process and the innovations along the way. The hard work is done, now we can just coast along on the coat-tails.
There will always be purists and snobs. We just don't need either here.
There will always be purists and snobs. We just don't need either here.
Drinking: last K&B & extract brews, BIAB #1- Golden Ale, #2- Pale Ale, #3- Galaxy Single-hop Ale
In the Pipeline: ESB, Landlord
In the Pipeline: ESB, Landlord
Post #19 made 15 years ago
It was exactly the same experience for me. We owe a lot to our "Forefathers" The "Old Guys" who set us on the path of brewing good beer, easily and cheaply. I am serious. I am not being a wise ass. (this time)!big dave wrote:When I was first interested in BIAB I read the AHB thread where PP and a few other guys were doing the original experiments that started it all off. It is a bit inspirational to read about the process and the innovations along the way. The hard work is done, now we can just coast along on the coat-tails.
There will always be purists and snobs. We just don't need either here.
Last edited by BobBrews on 16 May 2011, 21:06, edited 5 times in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #20 made 15 years ago
I don't just think it's BIAB, naturally we notice the anti-BIAB sentiments more than others but if you have a close look at many of the forums there is a definite "pecking order" of brewing systems where some long-serving members have a mental set of "proven things" such as fly sparging is better than batch sparging because we all know this is a definite fact, HERMS is far superior to 3V systems as we all know. A system fitted with a PID is, by the immutable laws of the Universe, a much better arrangement than a non PID rig. (actually I have no fricken idea what a PID is 
).
It's long been announced by Jehovah that Plasma is far superior to that interloper LCD..... oops wrong forum
I'm starting to get really bad myself. Current club competition prize is a trip to the USA to the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp and you know what I just can't get enthusiastic about it. The prospect of travelling halfway round the planet to sit in on endless sessions of people doing unnecessarily complex operations with many vessels: "now folks we're getting a good fly sparge happening, note I'm doing constant pH checks on the runnings to..."
"Jeez mate, just lift the friggin bag and have a beer while it's draining , what's the bloody problem?"
Maybe I need to talk so someone
).It's long been announced by Jehovah that Plasma is far superior to that interloper LCD..... oops wrong forum
I'm starting to get really bad myself. Current club competition prize is a trip to the USA to the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp and you know what I just can't get enthusiastic about it. The prospect of travelling halfway round the planet to sit in on endless sessions of people doing unnecessarily complex operations with many vessels: "now folks we're getting a good fly sparge happening, note I'm doing constant pH checks on the runnings to..."
"Jeez mate, just lift the friggin bag and have a beer while it's draining , what's the bloody problem?"
Maybe I need to talk so someone
Last edited by Beachbum on 30 May 2011, 06:32, edited 5 times in total.
Post #21 made 15 years ago
BB, that is one of the best posts I have had the pleasure to read on this forum.
If we had a "hall of fame" I would nominate your post to be the first addition to it.
Top stuff
If we had a "hall of fame" I would nominate your post to be the first addition to it.
Top stuff
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #23 made 15 years ago
Basically, allows for a fast takeoff and smooth landing...
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III
5/7/12
Post #24 made 15 years ago
excuse me for deterring from the usual KISS motto, but i'm seriously thinking of going for PID-BIAB.joshua wrote:Good Day BB. A PID controller is a temperature controlling device. Period,Integal,Derivative, The device allows programming for temperatures, without overheating, or taking forever to get to the setting. Or it can raise something to a temperatue and hold it, for hours. Of couse for us, we need direct heating of the Kettle!
if my kettle can reach mash temp, hold it for an hour and then ramp up to mashout temp without my interference, that's even more free time for me to sit back and have another HB*.
*or possibly wash the dishes, feed the children dinner, put them to bed and talk to SWMBO for a few minutes.
Last edited by shibolet on 30 May 2011, 17:48, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
Post #25 made 15 years ago
Your absolutely correct. If going PID, I would install a simple pump to recalculate the wort in the kettle during the mash. A simple washing machine pump (new!) will do.joshua wrote:Good Day Shibolet, One thing to remember is with PID-heating, you should stir,stir and stir some more, the kettle will overheat at the bottom, and be too cool at the top. Of course, the Tech people may invent a simple way to automatically stir when the kettle heats.
Last edited by shibolet on 31 May 2011, 11:54, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:
