mashout at 80c

Post #1 made 1 year ago
just a quick question regarding mashout.....

After a 90 min full volume mash at 66c I always do a 15 min mashout at 78c (172f) (after reading somewhere it improves efficiency,) that is except for this morning, for some brain-faded reason while doing an APA I have inadvertently done my 15 min mashout at 80c (176f) :blush:

Now I have heard bad things can, and do happen if the Mashout gets to 80c and above, but just what I don't know....can anyone please enlighten me as to what the consequences may be and to what effect if any it will have on my finished beer, or am I just being a bit paranoid over nothing, after all 2c doesn't seem a helluva lot.
Last edited by alanem on 22 Feb 2016, 14:04, edited 1 time in total.
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Post #2 made 1 year ago
There is discussion that temps above 170-172 for any substantial length of time will result in extraction of tannins from the husks resulting in an astringent quality to the beer.

My advice? Piss on it, your beer is going to be just fine and you can go back to worrying about a meteor strike or global warming.

---Todd
WWBBD?
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Post #3 made 1 year ago
thughes wrote:There is discussion that temps above 170-172 for any substantial length of time will result in extraction of tannins from the husks resulting in an astringent quality to the beer.

My advice? Piss on it, your beer is going to be just fine and you can go back to worrying about a meteor strike or global warming.

---Todd
Even then, it is said as long as your pH is in proper range there is nothing to worry of this.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... of_Tannins
Last edited by Rick on 22 Feb 2016, 22:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #4 made 1 year ago
Thank you thughes and rick for your answers, my pH is usually about 5.2 or thereabouts.
thanks once again guys
cheers
I used to spill more than I drink these days!

Post #5 made 1 year ago
Lol Todd :). (Still laughing at the first cartoon you snuck in here.)

Todd and M_S have got you sorted. Conventional wisdom is that if you go over this temp and this pH in the same mash, you'll run into tannin problems. I reckon there are a lot of BIAB brewers out there for whom the last ting they should be worried about is mash-out temperature because they pulverise their malt into flour. That'll screw you with tannins before anything else I reckon.

...

Your question, alanem, is always an interesting one, for me at least. Firstly, I'm not sure where our mash-out temps are sourced from originally. Secondly, they vary a bit. Finally, I don't understand how decoction mashes work in relation to this. (For new all-grainers, decoction mashes involve scooping up bits of the mash and boiling them!)

:dunno: :think: :scratch:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 23 Feb 2016, 20:06, edited 1 time in total.
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mashout at 80c

Post #6 made 1 year ago
These mash out temps would also have been calculated around a 3V set up where to raise the temp of the mash to 80C you would be adding a quantity of near boiling water to the mash. I wonder if that has something to do with it as well?

Post #7 made 1 year ago
I don't bother with a mashout any more, especially if doing a simple infusion mash in the mid 60s.

The problem with mashout was that I was stirring and agitating the mash as it ramped up to 78 in my electric urn, and creating a lot of turbidity in the wort.
After hoisting the bag the wort was very cloudy and I was wasting about 3 litres to trub at the end of the boil.

I've started just gently lifting the bag (pulley system)over about 15 minutes. The grain has had an hour or so during the mash to settle down and by gentle lifting I'm getting a good grain bed happening inside the bag.
Of course not as good as a HERMS or Braumeister or other recirculating system, but definitely an improvement.
With my last brew, after collecting the remaining urn contents and letting them settle out in lab jars, I ended up losing less than a litre to trub and also gained a couple of litres that I froze for use in starters.

Thinking back over my BIAB career the general wisdom has been that Mashout results in a more "runny" wort so better drain off and efficiency. Since abandoning Mashout my efficiency is exactly the same.

As for tannins, they quite happily boil the blazes out of the grain during a decoction mash and it obviously doesn't do any harm.

Post #8 made 1 year ago
How ya goin Beachbum? Nice to hear from you.

What you mention about turbidity is interesting to me, I have been getting cloudy wort for a while now, and it isn't clearing like you would expect or as quick. An odd one out strangely enough was an IPA that I used 500g Simcoe in 50L, that one dropped crystal clear very quickly. :scratch:

I use Whirlfloc (5 mins), have added Polyclar with it (Brewbrite copy), I no chill, but have even put the containers in the keezer at 1C for a week or 2 and it is still cloudy when racking to fermenter. Fined with Gelatin too, and it can take 2-3 months at 1C to finally drop clear. BTW, it isn't chill haze either (Same when warm).

You have just given me something to try on my next brew. Pat mentioned recently about boiling for up to 15 minutes before adding any (bittering) hops. i.e. wait for a good hot break. So I think i may try both of these methods next. Cheers!
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #9 made 1 year ago
Sorry, in a rush, but two quick ones...

With the mashout, it's a preferable (but not necessary) step for a few reasons. One reason is that, on average (see this thread), it will give you a few extra percent in kettle efficiency. As for the turbidity BeachBum, your BIAB bag will have a lot do with that. Obviously, a coarser bag is going to give less clear trub than a finer one. I reckon if agitating your grain during mash-out (from memory, I don't think you agitate it during the mash but I might be wrong) leads to turbidity, then a finer bag could be the go. Or, the folowing may also be relevant...

There is a difference between turbidity and a wort that won't clear.

I, and a few other brewers had this problem about 6 or 7 years ago. None of us had changed our process but we were suddenly getting hazy beers. What the???

After ages and ages of discussion etc, the conclusion was that the malts we were using (can't remember which ones) came from a poor season. And, I think this was right as it hasn't occurred again to anywhere near the same degree.

....

The only way we found to fix it was by using polyclar. Think of all finings as being magnets but of different types. One fining might attract x molecules whilst another will attract y or z. Whatever problem our malt was causing, polyclar ended up being the solution.

The main thing is, if you suddenly develop a problem you haven't had before but haven't changed your method, then it could be your malt.

:peace:
PP

P.S. A 90 minute boil (which mally already does from memory) can also sort out some hazy beer problems.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 06 Apr 2016, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.
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