As I don't brew BIAB [actually Full volume mash most of the time] I have a question concerning water/grain ratio. I'm going to brew a Mild but the grain ratio is 9.27lt/kg.
Have you noticed any detriment to the beer at those ratios? Mash pH, boil pH and/or final beer quality? I will modify my water to the general Mild profile.
If you are brewing a Mild or similar [1.028 - 1.036] how do you handle it as a BIAB recipe, final fermenter size about 22 litres. I certainly don't doubt it can be done just open to few guidelines.
Steve
Post #2 made 11 years ago
Hey there old friend 
. I only just realised it was you when I saw Steve. It's been a while since our BeerSmith beta days 
. Been wondering how you have been doing. Great to see you found your way here and nice to see you doing the full volume mash's.
Proper BIAB is a full volume mash so there really isn't any difference between pure BIAB and what you are currently doing with the exception of you draining the wort from the grist into s second vessel (kettle) rather than removing the grain from the wort.
No one has ever commented on any perceived detrimental effect of BIAB's thinner mashes. There is also conflicting advice between home brew experts and brewing scientists. They say the opposite on at least one aspect of this from memory and I know who I trust most - lol. So, don't even give L/G ratios a second thought.
This site has ended up writing its own software (in spreadsheet form - a lot different to the version you saw a few years back) as they sort of gave up on trying to get problems fixed in other programs, problems that you well know about. Being freed from the limitations of other programs has lead to some pretty revolutionary features in what is known as The BIABacus. For example, the BIABacus automatically raises or lowers your kettle efficiency depending on the grain bill. So, if you brewed your mild, the BIABacus will estimate and calculate for a much higher kettle efficiency than it would if you were brewing an IPA. There's lots of stuff like this all of which can be tweaked by the user if necessary.
And, guess what? The formulas are correct
.
The only problem is that we made a purposeful decision to put most of the info on a single sheet. This means it is visually quite assaulting at a first glance. Once you get past that though, it is great as you can easily see the effect of any changes you make.
Hopefully the above answers your question although it is quite possible I have missed some of what you might be asking. (Btw, if doing water adjustments, you adjust all your water in full volume mashes.)
We'll have to arrange a catch up Skype Steve.
Take it easy,
PP
. I only just realised it was you when I saw Steve. It's been a while since our BeerSmith beta days . Been wondering how you have been doing. Great to see you found your way here and nice to see you doing the full volume mash's.Proper BIAB is a full volume mash so there really isn't any difference between pure BIAB and what you are currently doing with the exception of you draining the wort from the grist into s second vessel (kettle) rather than removing the grain from the wort.
No one has ever commented on any perceived detrimental effect of BIAB's thinner mashes. There is also conflicting advice between home brew experts and brewing scientists. They say the opposite on at least one aspect of this from memory and I know who I trust most - lol. So, don't even give L/G ratios a second thought.
This site has ended up writing its own software (in spreadsheet form - a lot different to the version you saw a few years back) as they sort of gave up on trying to get problems fixed in other programs, problems that you well know about. Being freed from the limitations of other programs has lead to some pretty revolutionary features in what is known as The BIABacus. For example, the BIABacus automatically raises or lowers your kettle efficiency depending on the grain bill. So, if you brewed your mild, the BIABacus will estimate and calculate for a much higher kettle efficiency than it would if you were brewing an IPA. There's lots of stuff like this all of which can be tweaked by the user if necessary.
And, guess what? The formulas are correct
.The only problem is that we made a purposeful decision to put most of the info on a single sheet. This means it is visually quite assaulting at a first glance. Once you get past that though, it is great as you can easily see the effect of any changes you make.
Hopefully the above answers your question although it is quite possible I have missed some of what you might be asking. (Btw, if doing water adjustments, you adjust all your water in full volume mashes.)
We'll have to arrange a catch up Skype Steve.
Take it easy,
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 14 Mar 2014, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
I'm impressed with the effort you have put into this site Pat. Most excellent. I've d/loaded Biabacus and I also well impressed. I mistakedly put all my water in my direct heat mash tun oneday so as an expeeriment did a few volume mash as I had 70c water and no motivation to move it
My efficiency was the same and brew day was shorter. Beer seemed fine as well.
My concern with the water/grain ratio naturally is the mash getting to the right pH. A normal 1.050 beer isn't a problem as I've measured a Pilsner only nothing else girlie beer and it was fine. I adjust my water to get a /calcium level near to 100 ppm so the mash reaches a good pH range quickly.
Would you suggest a longer mash because of the water ratio if doing a single infusion,single temperature - I admit to being a bit cautious with this one as I'm not normally a low gravity brewer. I normally mash for 60 minutes with a 10 minute mash out. Most of the time I step mash mashing in at 50 and immediately ramping up to 63 then 68 and finally 75 - total about 120 minutes.
I'll PM my email etc and catchup. Actually I've got a good phone plan now so as long as it is a landline I'll call you.
Steve
My efficiency was the same and brew day was shorter. Beer seemed fine as well.
My concern with the water/grain ratio naturally is the mash getting to the right pH. A normal 1.050 beer isn't a problem as I've measured a Pilsner only nothing else girlie beer and it was fine. I adjust my water to get a /calcium level near to 100 ppm so the mash reaches a good pH range quickly.
Would you suggest a longer mash because of the water ratio if doing a single infusion,single temperature - I admit to being a bit cautious with this one as I'm not normally a low gravity brewer. I normally mash for 60 minutes with a 10 minute mash out. Most of the time I step mash mashing in at 50 and immediately ramping up to 63 then 68 and finally 75 - total about 120 minutes.
I'll PM my email etc and catchup. Actually I've got a good phone plan now so as long as it is a landline I'll call you.
Steve
Post #4 made 11 years ago
We plod along as best as we can but finding blocks of uninterrupted time is always the enemy. The site never seem to move forward, structure-wise and BIABacus development-wise unless someone can spend four or five days in a row at it. On the good side, people here usually get good one on one answers from the members here. It's a very different culture from what you often find elsewhere.
Not sure if my answer below will be much good to you but I'll have a crack...
Just quickly on the 60 minute mash. A few of the members here have been kind enough to record the gravities at different times throughout the mash and it seems that the extra 30 minutes in a 90 minute mash tends to make, on average, a worthwhile difference.
If we are talking mash pH, I tend to use acidulated malt to control mine and to tell you the truth, I don't see really that much of a difference in how much is needed between a low gravity beer, normal gravity beer, pilsner or a schwarzbier. On the latter, they have recently shown that it is actually crystal malts that will affect the pH far more than darker malts which backs up what I have seen. Also, in the full volume mash, the grains have less effect on the water so things like the amount of crystal or grain weight in general affect the mash pH less.
Will look forward to a catchup mate
,
PP
P.S. Funny thing was I was only thinking about you about half an hour before you posted. I was thinking about your spraying the grains before milling.
Not sure if my answer below will be much good to you but I'll have a crack
...Just quickly on the 60 minute mash. A few of the members here have been kind enough to record the gravities at different times throughout the mash and it seems that the extra 30 minutes in a 90 minute mash tends to make, on average, a worthwhile difference.
If we are talking mash pH, I tend to use acidulated malt to control mine and to tell you the truth, I don't see really that much of a difference in how much is needed between a low gravity beer, normal gravity beer, pilsner or a schwarzbier. On the latter, they have recently shown that it is actually crystal malts that will affect the pH far more than darker malts which backs up what I have seen. Also, in the full volume mash, the grains have less effect on the water so things like the amount of crystal or grain weight in general affect the mash pH less.
Will look forward to a catchup mate
,PP
P.S. Funny thing was I was only thinking about you about half an hour before you posted. I was thinking about your spraying the grains before milling.
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
Spraying the grain before milling with about 20 ml/kg so that the grains just stick to the hand when squeezed will give a very "fluffy" crush that for a higher water/grain ratio should be an advantage as the grain will float more instead of sinking so much in the mash. Let it stand for about 15-20 minutes before milling. Be aware though it will put more strain on your mill.
Steve
Steve
Post #6 made 11 years ago
I'm just mashing a 1.034 English mild at a water grain ratio of 9.25l/kg and after 5 minutes the mash pH has settled at 5.4 [cooled sample @ 20c] I'm certainly not concerned about the grain water ratio any longer.
I adjusted the water to have a Calcium of 150 ppm as per Graham Wheeler's water application. The Mild profile.
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html
I've used these recomendations for a Porter and they are sensational.
Steve
I adjusted the water to have a Calcium of 150 ppm as per Graham Wheeler's water application. The Mild profile.
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html
I've used these recomendations for a Porter and they are sensational.
Steve
Post #7 made 11 years ago
Full volume brewing is a breeze!
Thanks for the wet grain milling info above too Steve. If you know of any articles on it, please let me know.
Thanks for the wet grain milling info above too Steve. If you know of any articles on it, please let me know.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
I thought I had one but will need to look further. I thought Kai had put together some material.
