Hi there Mick,

Not sure if I can help much without getting more info i.e. the original recipe source and how much grain you intend to use. One possibility is you might be comparing Brew Length in The Calculator with "batch size" in the original recipe. One figure is how much beer you end up with in your bottles/kegs while the other sometimes means end of boil volume and sometimes means volume into fermenter depending on where the recipe came from.

Other discrepancies also occur when converting from one program to another. OG and IBU figures rarely agree from one program to the next with the same recipe. This post shows how some of those discrepancies can play out.

A read here might help you find the problem also. If it doesn't, just post the details up and we'll get it sorted.

There shouldn't be any need to play around with the hops as The Calculator will adjust these for you.

Hope this helps a bit
PP

I was reading just today on another forum that IBU calculations with all the major software programs are a bit "voodoo" - for example with Beersmith I often get a prediction of say 45 IBU but at the end of the process the beer doesn't taste anywhere near that bitter. Other times I use say Target hops and it's really bitter and twangy althought Beersmith predicts a milder bitterness. The suggestion was made that the programs - whilst excellent at predicting OGs and ABVs etc - shouldn't be relied on too much for hop additions and should be just taken as a general guide. But keep good records and eventually you'll get a 'feel' for how 50grams of Challenger and 50 grams of Goldings (for example) should taste.
That's what I do nowadays and I take the BS prediction with a pinch of salt (or pellets )

Hope that reassures

Cheers
Michael

Mick71 wrote:My concern was where have my other 2.5L of beer gone. I would have to assume that anyone who posts a recipe (particularly a poster of such high regard as the owner of the recipe) that by batch size, they mean wort into the fermenter, or even beer into keg or bottle.

I think PP got it right, looks like you're confusing "Brew Length" in The Calculator with the original recipe's "batch size".

Generally, "batch size" refers to the volume of wort in the boil kettle after the boil is complete. In The Calculator, "Brew Length" refers to the amount of beer you will end up with and takes into account losses to trub in the boil kettle and fermenter. If you take a look at The Calculator, a few rows below "Brew Length", there is a cell that reads "End of Boil Volume (Batch Size)". This is the value you should be comparing with the original recipe's batch size and, assuming I'm interpreting your posts correctly, should read pretty closely.

If you post your calculator spreadsheet, there are plenty of good folks who would be happy to take a look and help you out.

[BBH - went to submit and saw your post. I think I have said what you have but ten times longer - lol!]

Sorry Mick, this is a long post but when it comes to recipe translation there are no simple answers unless your recipe is sourced from this site.

Straight away I can see there is a problem in your source recipe. The recipe calls for only about 4 kg of grain but is wanting an OG of 1.045 on a 20 L "batch"???

Recipe translation should be very easy but it is not. If you are a brewer who thinks logically, recipe translations will drive you mad as recipes are put forward time and again, usually from a computer program, without much of the basic information being provided. For example, in your case...

What we don't know from your author are the following...

1. What do they mean by batch? (What was their end of boil volume?)
2. What formula or program did they use to give an OG of 1.045? (An author giving their efficiency figure does not solve this problem unless they provide the formula/program.)
3. If 'batch' above did not mean end of boil volume, then how much have they allowed for losses to kettle trub/buffer?
4. If 'batch' above did not mean end of boil volume, then how much have they allowed for losses to fermenter trub?

As soon as I saw your post, I knew there was a problem. There is no way you will get 20 L of 1.045 gravity "beer" into kegs or bottles from 4 kg of grain unless you want a lot of mud in them!

...

The most important 'grain' figure to "find" in recipe translation is the end of boil volume figure as OG does not change after the end of the boil.

The second most important 'grain' figure to "find" in recipe translation is the original gravity. This figure can vary as wildly from a badly recorded hydrometer reading through to a software-predicted figure. If the former, errors will be involved. If the latter, no two software programs agree!

We won't even go into hops!!!

So, recipe translation is not easy.

What I can tell you now though is that you won't get 20 L of drinkable beer from that 4 kg of grain. Use The Calculator, as you have done, to work out a very good ball-park prediction. Do some measuring, at as many stages you can, over several brews of gravities and volumes.

Once you have these, you can start working on your own averages and adjust The Calculator accordingly. With these averages, the detective work of trying to determine another brewer's bitterness, volume or gravity definition becomes a bit easier.

Finally, if you are thinking it should be a lot simpler than this, then you are totally correct. It should be. As far as I know though, BIABrewer.info is the only site that offers a template to post recipes that have no room for ambiguity.

Hope the above helps. It might take a few slow reads to absorb the fact that something that should be so simple is made so complicated through the most basic lack of clear definition.

Cheers Mick,
PP

Great to see that made some sense Mick. Any time I write a long post I get scared . There's a fine line between offering necessary detail and writing nonsense. So, posting is usually scary for me


PP

P.S. Will look forward to seeing how the next set of figures turn out.