The No-chill (or slow-chill?) method has been in use for quite a few years now and I see that in the early days there was talk about added bitterness grassy flavours coming through in the final product due to the extra time the hops were getting in solution above 80c, I have even seen a couple of conversion tables for changing hop addition timings to avoid same. It sounds like it is only a problem for hop driven styles such as IPAs and hoppy American Pale Ales (which is what I like to brew), is this still considered an issue or has it been debunked over the last few years as I don't see to much about it in modern contemporary references?
About to try No-Chill for the first time very soon and wondering if I need to adjust my recipes to suit or not????
Anothre No-Chill Question
Post #2 made 9 years ago
There's a ton n of posts on this subject but I am not sure where.
The short answer is that it depends and most recipes, even good ones, don't give you enough information about what they do after flame out to accurately replicate their hop additions.
For example, one brewer might turn the flame off and immediately start running a chiller while another might let the wort sit for half an hour or more before even starting a chiller.
Another factor is your total volume of wort. If you have 15L in a pot and put it in an ice bath it will be below 80C relatively quickly. If you have 5000L even with the best heat exchanger it will take more than 30 minutes to chill all the wort below 80C.
From my perspective when I am trying to make hoppier beers I usually calculate a flame out addition as about 15 minutes and then do a hip stand when the wort temp reaches about 85C as well as dry hopping in the fermenter. I like these results but have also used cube hopping with good success.
For cube hopping I normally wait 10-15 minutes after flame out, whirlpool and let sit for another 15-20 minutes and then transfer to cube but these times are never measured and are highly variable due to other distractions.
There are also a number of different ways that IBUs are calculated and they don't agree with each other, especially when it comes to late/flame out additions. In fact most state that 0 minute additions add no bitterness but in my experience this is not the case regardless of chilling or no chilling.
Unfortunately there is only one way through this mess. You will need to brew the same recipe multiple times using a variety of these methods, starting with just following the recipe, and see what works best for you. Even more upsetting is that you will only know this by tasting a lot of these beers over long periods of time to determine what works best for you. It's a tough gig this brewing palaver!
The short answer is that it depends and most recipes, even good ones, don't give you enough information about what they do after flame out to accurately replicate their hop additions.
For example, one brewer might turn the flame off and immediately start running a chiller while another might let the wort sit for half an hour or more before even starting a chiller.
Another factor is your total volume of wort. If you have 15L in a pot and put it in an ice bath it will be below 80C relatively quickly. If you have 5000L even with the best heat exchanger it will take more than 30 minutes to chill all the wort below 80C.
From my perspective when I am trying to make hoppier beers I usually calculate a flame out addition as about 15 minutes and then do a hip stand when the wort temp reaches about 85C as well as dry hopping in the fermenter. I like these results but have also used cube hopping with good success.
For cube hopping I normally wait 10-15 minutes after flame out, whirlpool and let sit for another 15-20 minutes and then transfer to cube but these times are never measured and are highly variable due to other distractions.
There are also a number of different ways that IBUs are calculated and they don't agree with each other, especially when it comes to late/flame out additions. In fact most state that 0 minute additions add no bitterness but in my experience this is not the case regardless of chilling or no chilling.
Unfortunately there is only one way through this mess. You will need to brew the same recipe multiple times using a variety of these methods, starting with just following the recipe, and see what works best for you. Even more upsetting is that you will only know this by tasting a lot of these beers over long periods of time to determine what works best for you. It's a tough gig this brewing palaver!
Anothre No-Chill Question
Post #4 made 9 years ago
Just a typo, should read hop stand. Basically a post flame out addition of hops for a period of time at a specific temperature.
My general understanding is that conversion of alpha acids in hops to bittering compounds only happens above 80C and happens faster at higher temperatures. So the closer the wort is to 80C the less conversion is happening which should result in more flavour and aroma from the additions.
Hops are much more complex than this in reality and there are a number of different compounds involved but that is well beyond my level of beer comprehension.
My general understanding is that conversion of alpha acids in hops to bittering compounds only happens above 80C and happens faster at higher temperatures. So the closer the wort is to 80C the less conversion is happening which should result in more flavour and aroma from the additions.
Hops are much more complex than this in reality and there are a number of different compounds involved but that is well beyond my level of beer comprehension.
Post #5 made 9 years ago
Sorry, I should picked that typo.....der!!!
Thanks for the helpful info, much appreciated.
Thanks for the helpful info, much appreciated.
