I tried finding this on the internet but am not sure what to actually query. I recently made a 2 gallon Saison using a ferm wrap. OG was 1.060, FG was 1.006 and I used Danstar Belle Saison yeast. I used dextrose/corn sugar to prime and used the the Northern Brewer priming sugar calculator as a guide to carbonate at 2.8 volumes. My finishing temperature was 84F. Anyway, at bottling, worried that there might not be enough yeast in suspension, I added 2 grams of Lavlin EC-1118 champagne yeast along with the sanitized and cooled priming solution to the bottom of the bucket, racked on top of it and then gently stirred with a sanitized spoon. I have never had any problems with sanitization before and I think I do as pretty good job with my bucket of StarSan solution and spray bottle. Four days after bottling the Saison I decided to see how they were going, not expecting much carbonation at all. When I opened a bottle, after a few seconds I had an absolute gusher. I poured what I could into a glass and took a sip. The actual mouthfeel was not very intensely carbonated and I could taste green apples. I must add that on bottling day I took a gravity sample and tasted it afterwards (discarding the rest) and it tasted fantastic, no off-flavours at all. I used 650ml thicker bottles hoping the higher volume would be safe inside them.
So I feel like an idiot because what would have likely been a great Saison with, at worst, a lower than desired carbonation, is now potentially a disgusting yeasty mess lurking inside bottles waiting to explode. I honestly don't know where I got the "2 grams of bottling yeast" from. If anyone has any experience with such an issue could you please set me straight? Do I just have a long bottle conditioning wait time? Is it ruined? Are these potential bottle bombs waiting to kill? Thanks guys.
Post #2 made 10 years ago
Started answering this on my main computer and then my UPS blew up 
.
I hate writing from my laptop but didn't want to leave you worrying so here's a fast reply...
When you bottle prime, you are starting off a new fermentation. Would you taste your main fermentation at four days? No! It will taste like crap as fermentation isn't even half-way through. So, forget what you have tasted - let it sit. As for carbonation, that is pressure, temperature and time. Once again, the bottle has had no time to absorb any CO2.
So, sit back, relax and let it be. No more tasting for two weeks!!!!
.I hate writing from my laptop but didn't want to leave you worrying so here's a fast reply...
When you bottle prime, you are starting off a new fermentation. Would you taste your main fermentation at four days? No! It will taste like crap as fermentation isn't even half-way through. So, forget what you have tasted - let it sit. As for carbonation, that is pressure, temperature and time. Once again, the bottle has had no time to absorb any CO2.
So, sit back, relax and let it be. No more tasting for two weeks!!!!
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
Thank you PistolPatch, that is reassuring to hear. I figured I was being hasty and dumb tasting it so early but after it's bottled I start getting antsy just to know what's going on. At least two weeks it is. Thank you, have a fine day good sir.
Post #4 made 10 years ago
Just out of interest, why did you decide to use a different yeast to carbonate with?
My thinking is that champagne yeast can be a bit of an attenuation beast, plus it "MAY" be able to ferment what the saison yeast couldn't. If so, it will convert that, plus what you primed with.
My thinking is that champagne yeast can be a bit of an attenuation beast, plus it "MAY" be able to ferment what the saison yeast couldn't. If so, it will convert that, plus what you primed with.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #5 made 10 years ago
The only Belle Saison yeast that I had left had been sitting open in the fridge for about three weeks. I for got that wine yeasts ferment different sugars and I was hoping for a nicely carbonated, champage-like fizz in my Saison. So are you telling me that I may have 12 650ml mini-carboys fermenting away without airlocks?
Post #6 made 10 years ago
I actually think it is unlikely, but it is introducing an unknown IMHO. Fortunately, the saison is an attenuation monster too.BrewGoblin wrote:So are you telling me that I may have 12 650ml mini-carboys fermenting away without airlocks?
Wouldn't be too confident if you fermented with Windsor yeast, then used champagne/saison/Brett to prime with though
The question was more to find out why you changed the yeast.
Last edited by mally on 12 Jan 2015, 21:58, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
woops! I wouldn't feel like an idiot if I were you, I've seen the champagne yeast thing mentioned many times for this style. However, I believe it's best practice to add to the fermenter to help stuck fermentations? As mally has already mentioned, you're setting yourself up for a heap of potential issues by adding it to the bottle WITH sugar. Adding the yeast to the bottle, imo ... would be nearly the last thing I would try if many other things did not work. Luckily, saison yeast is a monster attenuator and likely didn't leave much for the champagne yeast to chomp on.
In general, most won't see any carbonation issues unless the beer had some sort of extended fermentation (say, up to a year for souring), etc ...
Even then, extra yeast typically isn't needed ... just more sugar needs to go in to account for the lack of CO2 in the fermenter. Many priming calculators assume that your beer will have a certain volume of CO2 within, but after extended aging there will basically be nothing in there. If a typical amount of sugar is added to aged beer, it may seem undercarbonated. You didn't have to worry about this, though ... considering you said that this was brewed recently.
As for where you are now, it might be too late to re-cap them. Tossing the bottles in the fridge to cease activity might help?
In general, most won't see any carbonation issues unless the beer had some sort of extended fermentation (say, up to a year for souring), etc ...
Even then, extra yeast typically isn't needed ... just more sugar needs to go in to account for the lack of CO2 in the fermenter. Many priming calculators assume that your beer will have a certain volume of CO2 within, but after extended aging there will basically be nothing in there. If a typical amount of sugar is added to aged beer, it may seem undercarbonated. You didn't have to worry about this, though ... considering you said that this was brewed recently.
As for where you are now, it might be too late to re-cap them. Tossing the bottles in the fridge to cease activity might help?
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Post #8 made 10 years ago
I might toss a few in the fridge and see what happens. I just don't want to die from a bottle bomb. Does Champagne yeast eat dextrose?
Post #9 made 10 years ago
BG, YES, Lavlin EC-1118 champagne yeast like All sugars except Maltose. It works well until 17%-18% ABV.
It will take the Beer Dry.
Please keep it Cold. The Bottles won't Burst, and remember how Champagne Gushes.
It will take the Beer Dry.
Please keep it Cold. The Bottles won't Burst, and remember how Champagne Gushes.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
Joshua, thank you for that peace of mind. Do you have personal experience with such a thing? Right now the bottles, 650ml brown glass bombers, are at 68-70F in a room, out of light. I don't mind the beer being quite dry for the style, will it still carbonate though? How cold should I keep them and to what effect? I know the cold will slow/stop yeast activity but do I want to do that this soon? This is the sixth day they have been in the bottle. Is there hope for them to be a drinkable, perhaps even enjoyable beer? Thanks again everyone.
Post #11 made 10 years ago
If it's gushing, sounds to me like there's enough CO2 in there to carbonate your beer already. Now, it just needs to be absorbed into the beer ... it can do this in the fridge.
If you desire, you can always take them out and let them sit longer at room temperature. This is what I would do, safest way to protect from bombs. If they start blowing up, it's going to be too late. You can put all of them in the fridge, but maybe leave one at room temp inside of a bucket or something to protect it.
If you desire, you can always take them out and let them sit longer at room temperature. This is what I would do, safest way to protect from bombs. If they start blowing up, it's going to be too late. You can put all of them in the fridge, but maybe leave one at room temp inside of a bucket or something to protect it.
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
Thank you Rick, I will put all but one in the fridge when I get home. It will be interesting and a bit scary to say the least. The one gusher I opened didn't have much bite in the mouthfeel but hopefully that will come with some time in the fridge.
Post #13 made 10 years ago
If there is no room in the fridge, would 45-50F be suitable to stop the yeast?
Post #14 made 10 years ago
Yeast goes to sleep at 0C/32F. The Colder it gets the less it works, and as soon as it warms up it takes Off.
The only way to end the yeasts life is to Heat the Beer to 145F for a few minutes, and quickly cool the Bottles.
Read the History at http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/pac ... urization/
Ab-Inbev still uses this technology.
For more Info. on times and temperature to Pasteurize see
http://drinksdaily.com/2009/06/educatio ... urisation/
It is a bit more difficult to do Bottles than Kegs.
The only way to end the yeasts life is to Heat the Beer to 145F for a few minutes, and quickly cool the Bottles.
Read the History at http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/pac ... urization/
Ab-Inbev still uses this technology.
For more Info. on times and temperature to Pasteurize see
http://drinksdaily.com/2009/06/educatio ... urisation/
It is a bit more difficult to do Bottles than Kegs.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
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- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
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