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Anyone make no-chill starters by decanting the trub?

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by CheeseMoney
I no chill and was wondering about taking the leftover trub that I usually throw out and letting it settle out and then pouring the clear wort when it is time to make a starter. I make high gravity brews but could just dilute the wort when it is time to make the starter.

Anyone else do this and can you recommend a small vessel (1/2 gallon or 2L would seem about the correct size)?

Something like this 1/2 gallon bottle?

I'd need a vessel that can take very near boiling temperatures, obviously. Not sure if 2 liter soda bottle, water bottle, or other plastic bottle would work. I'd like to leave it unfridged like the rest of my no chill containers.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 22 Feb 2014, 06:44, edited 1 time in total.

Post #2 made 11 years ago
by Yeasty
I've used this method (decanting trub and leaving to settle) to give me starter wort but I have always frozen it and reboiled in my conical before pitching and bulking up. I have also stored wort in jam (jelly) jars which can be placed in a pressure cooker. Kilner jars would also work.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
    • SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From Great Britain

Post #3 made 11 years ago
by mally
My method is almost identical, though you don't necessarily need a heatproof vessel.
I decant the whole kettle (with hot break) into the no chill cube, you are going to get cold break in there anyway so it doesnt bother me too much. (BTW - I rarely store my cubed wort for long periods, and usually pitch within one month, so I cannot vouch for this method if used differently).

Therefore, when it comes to pitch, you can decant off the wort from hot & cold break, and put that (break) in a soda bottle (sanitised).
This will settle out whereby you can decant it for whatever use you like. I have 2L of this in my fridge at the moment & looks like there is easily 1L of usable wort.

As yeasty said, I will always check this before use & boil it to kill off anything that may have contaminated it.

One thing I haven't tried yet (as I am too lazy to calculate it) is to prime the same beer with it.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #5 made 11 years ago
by CheeseMoney
mally wrote:My method is almost identical, though you don't necessarily need a heatproof vessel.
I decant the whole kettle (with hot break) into the no chill cube, you are going to get cold break in there anyway so it doesnt bother me too much. (BTW - I rarely store my cubed wort for long periods, and usually pitch within one month, so I cannot vouch for this method if used differently).

Therefore, when it comes to pitch, you can decant off the wort from hot & cold break, and put that (break) in a soda bottle (sanitised).
This will settle out whereby you can decant it for whatever use you like. I have 2L of this in my fridge at the moment & looks like there is easily 1L of usable wort.

As yeasty said, I will always check this before use & boil it to kill off anything that may have contaminated it.

One thing I haven't tried yet (as I am too lazy to calculate it) is to prime the same beer with it.
I'm confused. I understand transferring all wort & break into the cube, but once you open the cube you are subjecting everything to the possibility of contamination. So if I'm gonna make a yeast starter from the break material, I have to open the cube first. Since a starter can take days, that's potentially a lot of time that the main wort, which presumably has been transferred to the fermenting vessel, has to sit without yeast. I must be missing something. Please explain.

I'm wondering if break material can just be transferred (near boiling) to a 2 liter bottle and sealed? Or something similar? I bet a soda bottle can't handle near boiling temps, but it should be easy to either brew a little extra or just transfer the break material into a 2 liter bottle and treat it like an extra cube. Boil it up again when it's time to pitch yeast.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 25 Feb 2014, 00:49, edited 1 time in total.

Post #6 made 11 years ago
by CheeseMoney
Lars wrote:I did s Hugh gravity mash with lager malt and froze it in bags. I dilute and boil in my conical for starters

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I like this but, despite the fact that I have 2 large chest freezers and a regular fridge/freezer combo in my small apartment, I am out of freezer space so I'm looking for a room temperature (or possibly fridge) solution.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 25 Feb 2014, 00:50, edited 1 time in total.

Post #7 made 11 years ago
by mally
No Problem cheesemoney. I should have made it clearer by saying if I am planning ahead for a future brew, then I will freeze the wort (like yeasty said).
If I plan to use it within a week or two (for things other than a starter) then I don't see the point in freezing it.
With this method you basically need to do a brew "in arrears" to get a starter for your future brew.

I guess what you want to do is use your current brew to create a starter, so you can pitch the cubed wort when the starter is ready?
What you proposed originally looks like it would work, but I have never done that. So unless anybody else has anything negative to say about it, give it a go and let us know how it goes.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #8 made 11 years ago
by CheeseMoney
mally wrote:I guess what you want to do is use your current brew to create a starter, so you can pitch the cubed wort when the starter is ready?
This is correct--I think the easiest way to do this is cube the majority of the wort in the standard no-chill cube, and then cube a little extra (or just the remaining break) in another small 2 Liter bottle. However, I'm having the hardest time finding a 2L HDPE vessel that doesn't cost more than my 6 Gallon Winpak cube.

Maybe something like this 64 oz bottle or this 64oz drum.
Image
or
Image
Anyone ever purchase a smaller plastic vessel like this that can verify that it can stand up to near boiling temps?

The nalgene bottles in 2 Liter sizes sell for like $40 USD.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 25 Feb 2014, 02:14, edited 1 time in total.

Post #9 made 11 years ago
by mally
Just a thought - If you think the starter will only take a few days (1 week max), you could try using an erlenmayer flask with foil cap?
I use a 1L one anyway for my starters but would love an excuse to get a 2L one! ;)
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Great Britain

Post #12 made 11 years ago
by CheeseMoney
Mad_Scientist wrote:I bought two of these, #71153, from us plastics.
Yikes, these are what I was looking for but they cost the same as a 6 gallon cube.
6 Gallon Winpak - $18.08
Image
1/2 Gallon Nalgene - $17.34
Image
I realize that you bought two of the 32 oz variety but that seems like a heck of a lot of money--wish they made a thick HDPE equivalent of the Winpak in 32oz/64oz sizes.

I realize that $20 for two containers plus shipping isn't that much, but considering how much I just spent on my keezer w/ 6 way secondary, I want to at least pretend to try and save some $$$ somewhere.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 25 Feb 2014, 08:45, edited 1 time in total.

Post #14 made 11 years ago
by CheeseMoney
Mad_Scientist wrote:Are your starters for liquid yeast?, this is definitely needed, but with dry yeast it isn't. Just checking...
I always use liquid yeast.

I'm wondering if this one would work. Some HDPE like the Winpak seems to be able to take 100C/212F. Some specs say only 65C/150F. for HDPE. Seems to depend on the product.

This one doesn't list specs but says:

Made of tough high density polyethylene, corrosion resistant. Lighter than glass jugs. Easy storage. All are white except #66300 which is natural. Meets FDA standard.
Image
Not loving the handle though.
Last edited by CheeseMoney on 25 Feb 2014, 09:02, edited 1 time in total.
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