If I am going to add honey to a recipe, how do I input it in BIABacus?
I suppose section F, however this will not consider the fermentation and end ABV .
How can I input honey into the spreadsheet so that it will consider that in the final ABV.
Or does it even matter?
Brandon
Post #2 made 11 years ago
When are you planning on adding it Brandon, I would expect that it would be added late on possibly in the fermenter ?
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
It would be something added towards the end of the boil.
I would think though that the yeast would eat up those sugars as well no matter when it was added thus increasing the total ABV?
I would think though that the yeast would eat up those sugars as well no matter when it was added thus increasing the total ABV?
Post #4 made 11 years ago
I think you will have to guess/average the ABV the honey will bring to the party. I'd do the Biabacus without the Honey then work out the ABV the honey will provide and add to the Biabacus ABV giving you a total for your beer.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #6 made 11 years ago
Brandon
If the honey was in the original recipe just add it to section C as normal. Biabacus can handle it
This post from PistolPatch may help
http://biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... &view=next
If you are designing a new recipe I am afraid I'm of no use to you.
I believe you need to be carefull adding honey as it has its own enzymes and yeast, along with various left over bee parts.
Randy Mosher in Radical Brewing suggests heating the diluted honey to around 63 - 65 degrees centigrade for about 30 mins. Then cool and add to the fermentor .
I have never used honey. Let us know how it goes
Majorphill
If the honey was in the original recipe just add it to section C as normal. Biabacus can handle it
This post from PistolPatch may help
http://biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5 ... &view=next
If you are designing a new recipe I am afraid I'm of no use to you.
I believe you need to be carefull adding honey as it has its own enzymes and yeast, along with various left over bee parts.
Randy Mosher in Radical Brewing suggests heating the diluted honey to around 63 - 65 degrees centigrade for about 30 mins. Then cool and add to the fermentor .
I have never used honey. Let us know how it goes
Majorphill
Last edited by majorphill on 21 Feb 2014, 15:35, edited 1 time in total.
Post #7 made 11 years ago
Interesting info on the honey Majorphill 
.
As for the honey in the BIABacus, yep, the honey goes in Section C and then gets adjusted in Section Y. In the top half of Section Y, beside 'Honey' put 95 for FGDB and 20 for MC.
In that post that Phil linked, you'll see that the BIABacus can handle boil additions in the manner above but (and this is what Yeasty was getting at) it will included the honey in the pre-boil gravity estimates etc, as it thinks that you are 'mashing' the honey.
In any recipe that say only has 10% weight in sugars or less, it really isn't worth worrying about. Do the C and Y bit and just don't be surprised if your pre-boil gravity is a bit less than estimated.
PP
.As for the honey in the BIABacus, yep, the honey goes in Section C and then gets adjusted in Section Y. In the top half of Section Y, beside 'Honey' put 95 for FGDB and 20 for MC.
In that post that Phil linked, you'll see that the BIABacus can handle boil additions in the manner above but (and this is what Yeasty was getting at) it will included the honey in the pre-boil gravity estimates etc, as it thinks that you are 'mashing' the honey.
In any recipe that say only has 10% weight in sugars or less, it really isn't worth worrying about. Do the C and Y bit and just don't be surprised if your pre-boil gravity is a bit less than estimated.
PP
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Post #8 made 11 years ago
Another article I found that might be useful ...
Boiling honey is said to kill the flavors, and they mention this as alternate method(similar to what majorphill mentioned).
I'm working on a Bell's Hopslam clone, and wonder if the dextrines from carapils will be sufficient.
I've read many places that honey can vary wildly, so I'm going to use this method in order to have better control.
Boiling honey is said to kill the flavors, and they mention this as alternate method(similar to what majorphill mentioned).
I like to mash IPA's low, and really wish there was more discussion on the "you must mash higher" part.
If you are motivated to try the pasteurization method, here it is. Note that a beer produced this way will have to be mashed at a slightly higher temperature (155-162° F) to produce enough dextrins to compensate for adding the diluted honey. It will also be useful to brew a smaller batch to allow carboy space for the honey water. To prevent alcohol levels from becoming too high, start with low- to medium-gravity beers when using this method.
Preheat the oven to 176° F. Place the honey in a sanitized, oven-proof saucepan. Heat the honey on the stovetop to 176° F. The honey should be stirred occasionally to avoid burning it. When the honey reaches 176° F, cover the pan and place it in the oven. Use a thermometer, and hold the honey in the oven at 176° F for 2.5 hours. Then bring the honey to room temperature by placing it in an ice bath. (If you can’t hold the honey mixture at precisely 176° F, any temperature from 176–185° F will be fine.)
Now add the honey to sufficient boiled water to match the starting specific gravity of your beer. Honey varies tremendously in most of its characteristics, including specific gravity. As a rough guide, 1 pound of honey dissolved in 1 gallon of water should yield an SG of about 1.032 to 1.038.
Start by taking a gravity reading of your beer wort. Say you’re brewing a nut brown honey ale with a gravity of 1.040. You’ve brewed a three-gallon batch at high mashing temperatures, and you’d like to add some clover honey. Bring two gallons of water to a boil. Take a gravity reading of the water (it should be 1.000 at 70° F). Dissolve one pound of honey in the water and take another reading (it should be 1.017 to 1.019). Use this figure and some simple math to estimate the amount of honey needed. Continue adding honey and taking readings until a reading of 1.040 is reached. Depending on the gravity of the honey, it could take from 1.10 to 1.36 more pounds of honey to reach target gravity. When the wort is at high krausen (when the yeast activity is at its peak), add the honey.
I'm working on a Bell's Hopslam clone, and wonder if the dextrines from carapils will be sufficient.
I've read many places that honey can vary wildly, so I'm going to use this method in order to have better control.
Last edited by Rick on 21 Feb 2014, 23:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
Thank you guys for all the input on adding honey. Im slowly learning all this and appreciate everyones help!!I too have been searching for a Bells Hopslam recipe. There are a lot of variances but nothing solid.
Might just have to piece something together.
Brandon
Might just have to piece something together.
Brandon
Post #10 made 11 years ago
One other question for PP... How would a newbie such as myself come up with these numbers - 95 for FGDB and 20 for MC?PistolPatch wrote:Interesting info on the honey Majorphill
As for the honey in the BIABacus, yep, the honey goes in Section C and then gets adjusted in Section Y. In the top half of Section Y, beside 'Honey' put 95 for FGDB and 20 for MC.
PP
Brandon
Last edited by blancasterb on 24 Feb 2014, 02:59, edited 1 time in total.
Post #11 made 11 years ago
95 FGDB (Fine Grind Dry Basis) & 20 MC (moisture content) gives you 35.1 ppg (points/pound/gallon), which is a value for yield.
Therefore you could try searching for <ppg "your adjunct here"> in an internet search engine and see what you find.
I am not sure whether the BIABacus needs to know the exact value of FGDB & MC, or whether the final ppg value is used (would be interesting to know, as I often just juggle these values to get a desired ppg value).
As an example, you could put FGDB 80 & MC 5 to get the same ppg (but I know honey isn't this "dry").
one reference for ppg is this.
Honey isn't listed, but as I said try google (other search engines are also available).
Therefore you could try searching for <ppg "your adjunct here"> in an internet search engine and see what you find.
I am not sure whether the BIABacus needs to know the exact value of FGDB & MC, or whether the final ppg value is used (would be interesting to know, as I often just juggle these values to get a desired ppg value).
As an example, you could put FGDB 80 & MC 5 to get the same ppg (but I know honey isn't this "dry").
one reference for ppg is this.
Honey isn't listed, but as I said try google (other search engines are also available).
Last edited by mally on 24 Feb 2014, 16:18, edited 1 time in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #12 made 11 years ago
I just made the answer up Brandon. Don't worry, just joking 
.
This is a really good question and I'm having a little difficulty in answering it. [EDIT: This is going to be very much a muddle below but it is a good example of how something that should be very simple has been made a mess of. EDIT2: Lol! mally has linked same table as I have below
]
Using another Brewing Program
Because I have BeerSmith, I often just use that for things like this. In BeerSmith, it said honey had a "Potential" of 1.035 or a "Yield" of 75%. BeerSmith has some real problems though when it comes to moisture content (see end of post) so I then just googled moisture content of honey and 20% came up as a reasonable figure. That went into section Y and then I played with FGDB until the FGAI showed 35. I could have been more accurate and typed in 93.8 for FGDB but 95 was close enough. I also could have cheated and just typed in 75% for FGDB and 0% for Moisture Content.
Using Google
Type in "Sugar content of sugar". On the right of your google screen you will see nutrition facts. See how jut says that honey has 82 grams of sugar per 100 grams of honey? What you could do here is just type in 100% for FGDB and 18% for Moisture Content. This will give you an FGAI of 82% or 37.9 ppg. Google therefore gives a 7% higher value than BeerSmith.
You can usually google for answers on this but it is not as easy as you think because of, once again, poor terminology and/or actual errors.
Which one is right?
I did some more googling and I'd be inclined to go for Google on this one but bear in mind that both could be correct as moisture content varies from honey to honey. In fact, the best place to get your answer would be on the label of the honey you are using. The sugar content is the real number we are looking for. So if it says, 82 grams sugar out of 100 grams, just type in 100 and 18 as above. (We don't care i this case whether the 18% is actually all water. That is irrelevant.)
What You Can Do - John Palmer Table
Have a look at John Palmer's table here. What you can do with that one is focus on the first column. FOr example, the first grain is 2 Row Lager Malt and it has a "Max Yield" of 80%. So in the BIAbacus, you would type in 80% for FGDB and 0% for MC. THen on the right, you will see 80% and 37.0 ppg.
But his table doesn't cover extracts or honey
. Use the following...
DME: 90 and 0
LME: 78 and 0
Honey: 82 and 0
Sugar: 100 and 0
Discrepancies between BeerSmith and John Palmer
If we just look at "Yield", you'll find discrepancies between BS and JP. Some things are higher in JP and others lower. There's a good lesson in this...
Commercial brewers will pay great attention to grain specs because they know how much they vary from batch to batch. Unless you can get hold of the actual specs, if you use JP, BS or anything else, the best it will be is a rough guide. That is why the BIABacus has a default for what these guys call yield. There really isn't any need or advantage in using Section Y unless you do have the actual grain specs or if you are using a honey, extract or sugar.
Still Confused?
I would be
.
This whole area is pretty hard to learn because of crazy and wildly varying terminology so if you are still confused, just ask on forum for now. You only need to ask though if you are using a honey, extract or sugar abd with a little luck, you might be able to understand the answer two sections above.
Wow!!!!! ,
PP
POSTSCRIPT Ignore BeerSmith Moisture Content
Just ignore the moisture content in BeerSmith. Firstly, if you do actually use BeerSmith, changing the MC of our ingredient doesn't change your recipe and it should do. Also, the MC is pretty dodgy anyway. For example, they have pure sugar and honey both having a moisture content of 4% whereas they should be 0% and about 20% respectively.
If you do want to use the BeerSmith Ingredients list as a n info source of extract potentials (read 'Discrepancies between BeerSmith and John Palmer' first) then, to make things simple, just type in whatever it has for yield into FGDB and 0 under MC. So for honey below, you just would type 75 and 0. Always 0.
.This is a really good question and I'm having a little difficulty in answering it. [EDIT: This is going to be very much a muddle below but it is a good example of how something that should be very simple has been made a mess of. EDIT2: Lol! mally has linked same table as I have below
]Using another Brewing Program
Because I have BeerSmith, I often just use that for things like this. In BeerSmith, it said honey had a "Potential" of 1.035 or a "Yield" of 75%. BeerSmith has some real problems though when it comes to moisture content (see end of post) so I then just googled moisture content of honey and 20% came up as a reasonable figure. That went into section Y and then I played with FGDB until the FGAI showed 35. I could have been more accurate and typed in 93.8 for FGDB but 95 was close enough. I also could have cheated and just typed in 75% for FGDB and 0% for Moisture Content.
Using Google
Type in "Sugar content of sugar". On the right of your google screen you will see nutrition facts. See how jut says that honey has 82 grams of sugar per 100 grams of honey? What you could do here is just type in 100% for FGDB and 18% for Moisture Content. This will give you an FGAI of 82% or 37.9 ppg. Google therefore gives a 7% higher value than BeerSmith.
You can usually google for answers on this but it is not as easy as you think because of, once again, poor terminology and/or actual errors.
Which one is right?
I did some more googling and I'd be inclined to go for Google on this one but bear in mind that both could be correct as moisture content varies from honey to honey. In fact, the best place to get your answer would be on the label of the honey you are using. The sugar content is the real number we are looking for. So if it says, 82 grams sugar out of 100 grams, just type in 100 and 18 as above. (We don't care i this case whether the 18% is actually all water. That is irrelevant.)
What You Can Do - John Palmer Table
Have a look at John Palmer's table here. What you can do with that one is focus on the first column. FOr example, the first grain is 2 Row Lager Malt and it has a "Max Yield" of 80%. So in the BIAbacus, you would type in 80% for FGDB and 0% for MC. THen on the right, you will see 80% and 37.0 ppg.
But his table doesn't cover extracts or honey
. Use the following...DME: 90 and 0
LME: 78 and 0
Honey: 82 and 0
Sugar: 100 and 0
Discrepancies between BeerSmith and John Palmer
If we just look at "Yield", you'll find discrepancies between BS and JP. Some things are higher in JP and others lower. There's a good lesson in this...
Commercial brewers will pay great attention to grain specs because they know how much they vary from batch to batch. Unless you can get hold of the actual specs, if you use JP, BS or anything else, the best it will be is a rough guide. That is why the BIABacus has a default for what these guys call yield. There really isn't any need or advantage in using Section Y unless you do have the actual grain specs or if you are using a honey, extract or sugar.
Still Confused?
I would be
.This whole area is pretty hard to learn because of crazy and wildly varying terminology so if you are still confused, just ask on forum for now. You only need to ask though if you are using a honey, extract or sugar abd with a little luck, you might be able to understand the answer two sections above.
Wow!!!!!
,PP
POSTSCRIPT Ignore BeerSmith Moisture Content
Just ignore the moisture content in BeerSmith. Firstly, if you do actually use BeerSmith, changing the MC of our ingredient doesn't change your recipe and it should do. Also, the MC is pretty dodgy anyway. For example, they have pure sugar and honey both having a moisture content of 4% whereas they should be 0% and about 20% respectively.
If you do want to use the BeerSmith Ingredients list as a n info source of extract potentials (read 'Discrepancies between BeerSmith and John Palmer' first) then, to make things simple, just type in whatever it has for yield into FGDB and 0 under MC. So for honey below, you just would type 75 and 0. Always 0.
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Last edited by PistolPatch on 24 Feb 2014, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
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