Advice for strike temp problems?

Post #1 made 12 years ago
How can I improve the technique for hitting the proper initial mash temp?

It seems simple but the mash temperature always seems to start too low or high by 5C. I measure the grain temperature and weight, water temperature and volume, and use a strike temperature calculator. For example, the le strike water should be atest batch was planned for 20l. Mash conditions were
  • 5.06kg grain,
  • 20l water (the remainder reserved for dunk sparges),
  • 28l Al tamale pot,
  • Insulation is 3 layers of Refleticx on the side, 2 layers on top
  • accurate glass thermometer
  • http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/ calculates the strike water at 67.8C
Target mash temp is 65C
I increased strike water temp from 67.8C to 70C
The mash temp rapidly settled to 60C
I added heat and it zoomed to 70C
Added ice to bring it to 65C

This is nuts. Any suggestions are welcome.
Last edited by Epimetheus on 01 Dec 2013, 00:44, edited 2 times in total.
I should have thought of that.

Post #2 made 12 years ago
The only thing I can think of in addition to Josh's points above Epi, is that of radiation. For example, urns are thin-walled and don't hold much heat whereas a heavy pot on a heavy stand will still transfer heat to your wort after you turn the flame off. It's a PITA and is something you have to get used to. I still get caught out on this from time to time :).

I can't check your figures on the Brewers Friend site as we don't have a grain temperaure from you however, the BIABacus has an adjustment factor to allow for 'thin' versus 'heavy' equipment. You won't get this on any other strike water temp calculator you come across.

Also, remember in the grain mill thread you mentioned you weren't hitting gravities? I assumed you were using the BIABacus but if you aren't, then this will be a big factor affecting how close you get to estimated gravities as other software assumes you will get the same amount of sugar out of every brew you do regardless of whether it is a large or small gravity brew. So, bare that in mind too ;).

:peace:
PP
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Post #3 made 12 years ago
The thermometer is a glass and alcohol type, it responds in 10 or 20 seconds. Is that fast enough? What would be quicker?
The kettle is wrapped in 3 layers of insulation, each 4mm layer has one aluminized side. The metal does not hold much heat, but what heat energy exists certainly does not escape quickly via radiation, conduction, or convection. The electric hob (element) under the pot remains very hot for 10 minutes or so. I remove the kettle from the stove so the heat does not keep rising, and place it on folded towels so the heat is not sucked out from the bottom.

Grain temp was 20C, measured with the accurate thermometer.

The grain mill was set finer. There was some flour and more cornmeal sized particles.

I will try BIABacus. I hit a BrewSmith predicted efficiency of 60% after wrestling with the mash temp.

Eventually when I build a temperature controled electric system, the kettle will be insulated like a mash tun. Eventually.
I should have thought of that.

Post #4 made 12 years ago
I will try the suggestions on the next batch, then reply back. BobBrews suggested in another thread to record everything. I will endeavor to do this.

Somewhere in the parts box is a USB thermocouple that can record temp every 2 seconds. I will calibrate it and see if it is still reliable.
I should have thought of that.

Post #6 made 12 years ago
The lowest controlled oven temperature is 77C/170F. Good idea, though.

I could use the 50 qt cooler for a mash tun, or just install a resistive element and PID controller, both would require a pump. Someday.
I should have thought of that.

Post #7 made 12 years ago
Epimetheus wrote: I could use the 50 qt cooler for a mash tun, or just install a resistive element and PID controller, both would require a pump. Someday.
Epi, there is no need for any of this stuff. Do an advanced search of posts done by me on the member called "Crusty". He spent four thousand dollars on pumps, three vessels etc, etc but he sold all that equipment because he thinks BIAB in an urn produces better beer.

A three vessel fanatic (like any fanatics, there are only a small percentage) on other sites will say, use a mash tun but it is actually a crazy idea for maintaining temperature. I and many others here used to three vessel and a cooler/esky will not solve your temperature problems, it will just cause more.

1. If you strike too low in a mash tun, you can't heat it unless you have expensive equipment tht will cost you time and money. (Always strike your mash low by the way. BIAB make sit very easy to add temperature.)

2. If you do want even heat (which I for one and Crusty for two, and maybe a million other people wouldn't even know whether that is a good idea or not), then BIAB is the easiest way to do that. The only way to apply even heat without spending a billion dollars and a hundred brews is to simply pay attention to your mash. That is it.

If you agitate your mash and check it's temperature regularly, you will see what radiation effects your set-up has. The only way of learning this is to do a few brews.

No one I know who wins medals has a complex set-up. That means no one at all, full stop or period as they say in America!!!! (What this tells me is that the more crap/equipment you have, the more likely you are to brew bad beer because you will get subtle infections creep in.)

Make any sense?
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Dec 2013, 19:32, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #8 made 12 years ago
No one I know who wins medals has a complex set-up. That means no one at all, full stop or period as they say in America!!!! (What this tells me is that the more crap/equipment you have, the more likely you are to brew bad beer because you will get subtle infections creep in.

Make any sense?
PP
Huh. That is a revelation to me. That means people with equipment get all tied up in the equipment instead of paying attention to the product. Looking back, I have the same experience. My best AG brew was the first one, over a year ago. My son called it "flower beer" because it was so fragrant. The pot was too small. The bag was a paint strainer and held the expanded grain in a tight ball, supposedly a bad idea. It was the simplest recipe I have ever done - two grains (2-row, XL30), two hops (Northern Brewer, Amarillo).

I had one bottle left from that batch and opened it recently. It was the color of old gold and crystal clear. There was absolutely no chill haze. Some of the aroma had disappeared, all of the flavor remained. My son agreed it was still the best.

Large electric urns are common in the UK and Australia, I have not found them in the US. (sigh)
Last edited by Epimetheus on 05 Dec 2013, 20:55, edited 2 times in total.
I should have thought of that.

Equipment versus product.

Post #9 made 12 years ago
Epimetheus wrote:...That means people with equipment get all tied up in the equipment instead of paying attention to the product.
Epi, I'm not sure if that is the best sentence I have seen written here or just one of the best. I'm thinking that it could be the best.

Thanks for that absolute gold quote fella. I'm bookmarking it now :salute:.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Dec 2013, 21:57, edited 2 times in total.
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