Post #2 made 11 years ago
There is certainly a lot of chemistry going on during a boil, a lot of which we probably don't understand (and I certainly don't)!
If you are going outside the "regular" boil times though, you would have to consider hop isomeration amongst other things. SMM to DMS etc.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #3 made 11 years ago
Berk, I have owed mally an email for about a week and he probably won't get a reply for another month as it will take me about four hours of thinking to reply to it. Your question is much easier :party:.
Berk wrote:As long as you anticipate the correct reduction in wort, does the evaporation rate matter? Is there any negative affect to product quality? Thanks.
Firstly, if you don't know what mally means by SMM than don't feel bad because neither do I. I could look it up I suppose but I'm not going to as I have just beaten mally in Cheesetradamus and am feeling quite superior :lol:.

Secondly, if you are a home brewer, especially if brewing outdoors, no matter what podcasts etc like to tell you, you will not be able to predict your evaporation rate. This site will give you the best prediction rates around but this site will also tell you they can vary wildly.

Mally mentioned hop isomerisation above. Let's leave that for now as there are so many [MOD EDIT: misunderstandings] in that area I can't even begin to explain them. (Apologies to Moderators. I know swearing on this site is rarely acceptable but am unsure of how better to express this fact :scratch:. And I won Cheese this week so this proves I know more than mally anyway :lol:).

...

Berk's question is a very good one. He is actually asking about a lot of things here that many of us think we have the answer to but we don't. In essence, it all boils down to (excuse the pun) is a vigorous boil better than a simmer?

...

Berk, for home brewers, a good rolling boil is what you should aim for, especially now. And, when you have done a thousand side by side beers on a hundred different styles then maybe send me a letter saying that you have noticed a bee's dick difference in your outcomes.

...

Atm, there are bugger all proven truths in home brewing.

In fact we are still struggling with many of the very basics. For example, more recently we discovered here,on BIABrewer.info, that all-grain recipes require more hops than extract recipes. But, this is not addressed in one of the books that I recommend most :nup:.

...

It is very easy in this whole home-brewer industry, especially on major forums, to come across people selling or sprouting unproven ideas. Berk, there are a billion unfortunate falsehoods or unproved 'truths' out there.

Simple equipment, accurate thermometers, cleanliness, honest ingredients*, patience and a good recipe are pretty much all you need to brew a great beer. You definitely don't need to worry about your boil if it is rolling.

;)
PP

P.S. And, I don't usually ramble as badly as this so my apologies.

* Someone sold me Amarillo hops recently that weren't amarillo :o.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Nov 2013, 22:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #4 made 11 years ago
PP,

I'm serious when I say this. You have the chops to write a book on this subject of all the myths and unproven "truths" in home brewing. Your answers to seeming simple questions are always excellent, and contain much more relevant info than I ever considered.

It may not be polite to 'should' on you, but I will anyway. You should write a book (and get paid for your knowledge and passion.)


trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
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Post #5 made 11 years ago
Thanks all.

"Simple equipment, accurate thermometers, cleanliness, honest ingredients, patience and a good recipe are pretty much all you need to brew a great beer. "

Words to live by (or brew by anyway).

Berk

Post #6 made 11 years ago
Berk: I had a fair bit of fuel on board by the time I got to your question last night :). I could have easily misinterpreted what you were actually asking. If so, let me know ;).

Also, here is some good information on what a boil does.

2trout: I'm glad some of what I write makes sense every now and then and thanks for your comments. What a ranty post that last one was though - lol! (I've tidied it a little but it still is pretty ranty :roll:). It does get a bit annoying though when you have to spend so much time correcting/explaining things that would be unnecessary if a few people had taken a little more care.

We are in a bit of a Catch22 time-wise on this site atm. The answers to basic questions are not easy to find atm so many questions are still being dealt with individually. When enough concentrated blocks of time are found to write and re-structure the site correctly, then hopefully the site will act a bit like a book. I'll make sure that they leave any ranty stuff of mine out though :lol:.

;)
PP

P.S. mally sent me this link re SMM.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 19 Nov 2013, 20:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
For stouts and dark ales or beers using dark malts or roasted barley you should target a minimum of 10% boil off, otherwise you can be left with some harsh smoky off flavours

Post #8 made 11 years ago
Great to have a retired professional brewer on the board Sorcerer :thumbs:. I know you won't need the amount of detail I have written below but I'll write it for any of the newer brewers who might be reading.

One of the annoying things you'll have to get used to on the home brewing side is that a few things that work well in the pro world don't translate too well to the home brewing world. For example, most pro brewers work on evaporation percentages and that seems to work okay as the kettle shapes and volumes and dynamics are pretty similar (not sure about those who have the fancy new kettles which atomise the wort as well :think:).

A lot of home brewers (and home brew experts) also talk in percentages but this works very poorly in the home brew world. What some of them forget is that given identical atmospheric conditions, evaporation from a home brew vessel is a constant volume per hour regardless of how full the vessel is. It simply doesn't work on percentages. Imagine a saucepan on your stove. Fill it with say a centimeter of water and it will boil dry in a few minutes. Fill it with ten cm of water and it will boil dry in maybe 30 minutes. If they both evaporated at a percentage, they would boil dry at the same time. This fact has serious repercussions in home brewing...

In my kettle, I sometimes single batch and sometimes double batch. My evaporation rate, whether I single or double batch, averages out at around 6.5 L an hour. If I turned that into a percentage though, I would have, with the same boil vigour, about a 28% evap rate on a 90 minute boil for the single batch versus a 16% evaporation rate for the double. On a 60 minute boil it would be about 20.5% and 9%. (There's not a symmetry to the numbers due to trub etc...)

In other words, in home brewing, due to different kettle shapes (tall and narrow versus short and wide) and different batch sizes, percentages become not that great to use. That means that the only tool we have to communicate with is boil length. Or, we need to tell the home brewer what the ideal kettle shape is and then add chimney etc :).

You may end up missing much of the certainty of pro brewing Sorcerer. Don't back out on us now though :lol:. There's a heap of questions here that could definitely use your experience.

Once again, welcome aboard,
PP
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