Hi all,
I'm back here after some time (and many BIAB brewings!) with a question:
After cooling my wort, I used to transfer it as clean as possible to the fermentor using a syphon, leaving all the trub behind. But this way I have to leave also some good wort!
Now in the last couple of brews I've started to transfer ALL the pot's content to fermentor, just pouring it, trub and all (and hops too, since I use free pellets in the pot). Then I just transfer it to a secondary after 4/5 days to clean it.
This way I've found that:
- I can bottle around 15% more beer than before!
- I save a lot of time in the brew day;
- I got a very good oxigenation of the word thanks to splashing while pouring it;
- The fermentation seems to start quickly than before.
As you can see, at the moment I'm very happy with this change, but I'm courius to know what do you think about it and if there are some risks or drawbacks doing this way that I haven't considered.
Thank you!
Post #2 made 12 years ago
I think i saw someone doing a similat thing on youtub...i can't remind who it was.
It sounds good, only that you need to use a secondary, any delay of the transfering it can get you off flavors from the trub, i think...
I like to let it in the primary for a longer time (>7 days) so i wouldn't use your method. Alse i can't really pour the wort in the fermentor because i use a keggle, LOL.
It sounds good, only that you need to use a secondary, any delay of the transfering it can get you off flavors from the trub, i think...
I like to let it in the primary for a longer time (>7 days) so i wouldn't use your method. Alse i can't really pour the wort in the fermentor because i use a keggle, LOL.
Post #3 made 12 years ago
There are a few guys on here who don't get too hung up on trub in the fermenter so I'll leave it to them to comment. Transferring to another vessel is called Double dropping and is a well known technique used by a few UK breweries.
If you are leaving too much wort behind when syphoning make one of these babies . It works great.
Yeasty
If you are leaving too much wort behind when syphoning make one of these babies . It works great.
Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 12 Oct 2013, 03:51, edited 2 times in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
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Post #4 made 12 years ago
When you transfer beer from the pot to the primary there is no reason to worry about trub. The fermenter needs trub to properly convert the sweet wort into beer. Don't try to make a clean transfer of wort into the primary. It makes it look pretty but it comes out clear either way. So why worry about it. 
Also, you don't have to worry about off flavors being produced and spoiling the beer. We have ran a series of test's and proved that the beer can sit on the yeast cake for months and taste as good or better than beer rushed off the yeast cake. The yeast needs time to clean up some off flavors that fermentation causes. People preferred the beer that sat longer in the primary. We normally discourage secondaries as unneeded and a way to introduce infections.
Remember that most of the reading you do on the internet pertains to "older" types of brewing (3V) and have been proven to be myth. Lots of brewing truths are seemingly common sense but in fact are not proven to be true. Most have been proven wrong. That's what we do here at BIABrewer.info. We are renegades!! Cool
Also, you don't have to worry about off flavors being produced and spoiling the beer. We have ran a series of test's and proved that the beer can sit on the yeast cake for months and taste as good or better than beer rushed off the yeast cake. The yeast needs time to clean up some off flavors that fermentation causes. People preferred the beer that sat longer in the primary. We normally discourage secondaries as unneeded and a way to introduce infections.
Remember that most of the reading you do on the internet pertains to "older" types of brewing (3V) and have been proven to be myth. Lots of brewing truths are seemingly common sense but in fact are not proven to be true. Most have been proven wrong. That's what we do here at BIABrewer.info. We are renegades!! Cool
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #5 made 12 years ago
I no-chill and do something similar. I put enough from no-chill container into 6gal carboy for a 5gal batch into corny keg.
Then I pull the rest of the no-chill container to a 1gal glass jug. Ends up looking completely like trub at first but I throw some yeast in there and end up with .75-.9gal of beer I can bottle at the end of a few weeks. Nothing wrong with some extra beer!
Then I pull the rest of the no-chill container to a 1gal glass jug. Ends up looking completely like trub at first but I throw some yeast in there and end up with .75-.9gal of beer I can bottle at the end of a few weeks. Nothing wrong with some extra beer!
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Post #6 made 12 years ago
Great to hear from you Zelig 
My own personal guess is that with things like this, maybe there are some beer styles that it is more important to have less trub than others and vice versa. Bob said above about trub having nutrients. That is spot on. Maybe high gravity beers could turn out better with more trub? Who knows?
At the other end of the scale we have lagers. Well, I'm not a trub fanatic and am pretty lazy in how I treat my lagers but usually get silvers on them. Maybe being lazy is good?
What I really, really, really think is that unless you can side by side a brew, or can brew the same recipe week after week then I don't think you can know for sure if a brewing practice harms or hinders. I can do side by side brews on the same day but I have more things to test out than I think I could do in two lifetimes! The only way we'll solve questions like this I suspect is by many people trying the same experiment at the same time with the same ingredients (incl water).
Now that I have warbled on for a lot longer than I thought, maybe I should write a decent last paragraph (or two?)
.
I like this thread. If Zelig had posted on another forum, it would soon be drowned out in a mess of posts that were too scientific but unproven or too blase or somewhere in between. I think being able to post here and say, "I have been doing this and have had no problems," is excellent. It puts the onus onto others, if they feel necessary, to prove, in a scientific manner, that the practice is faulty.
And,if there is no one who feels that need, then that gives everyone else the licence and confidence to relax in that particular area and then perhaps explore other areas.
Nice
,
PP
I know one brewer who would jump up and down about this and quote this and that article abut how wrong it is to allow trub into your fermnentor etc. He's a very good, experienced and knowledgeable brewer but I don't think he is necessarily right.Zelig wrote:...I'm courius to know what do you think about it and if there are some risks or drawbacks doing this way that I haven't considered.
My own personal guess is that with things like this, maybe there are some beer styles that it is more important to have less trub than others and vice versa. Bob said above about trub having nutrients. That is spot on. Maybe high gravity beers could turn out better with more trub? Who knows?
At the other end of the scale we have lagers. Well, I'm not a trub fanatic and am pretty lazy in how I treat my lagers but usually get silvers on them. Maybe being lazy is good?
What I really, really, really think is that unless you can side by side a brew, or can brew the same recipe week after week then I don't think you can know for sure if a brewing practice harms or hinders. I can do side by side brews on the same day but I have more things to test out than I think I could do in two lifetimes! The only way we'll solve questions like this I suspect is by many people trying the same experiment at the same time with the same ingredients (incl water).
Now that I have warbled on for a lot longer than I thought, maybe I should write a decent last paragraph (or two?)
.I like this thread. If Zelig had posted on another forum, it would soon be drowned out in a mess of posts that were too scientific but unproven or too blase or somewhere in between. I think being able to post here and say, "I have been doing this and have had no problems," is excellent. It puts the onus onto others, if they feel necessary, to prove, in a scientific manner, that the practice is faulty.
And,if there is no one who feels that need, then that gives everyone else the licence and confidence to relax in that particular area and then perhaps explore other areas.
Nice
,PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 16 Oct 2013, 20:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 made 12 years ago
I empty the entire contents from the brew kettle into the primary fermenter. After primary fermentation is complete, I transfer to the secondary. I use whirlfloc and have no problems with clarity. I am however starting to consider that I could possibly get the exact same results without even using the secondary.
Post #8 made 12 years ago
Well, thank you for your opinions, guys!
In fact I'm always trying to keep things as simple as possible (when brewing and... in all the rest of my life!) and now I think I'll try to skip the secondary at all and see what happens.
Cold is coming here in Italy, and it's time to start brewing again. I'll let you know!
In fact I'm always trying to keep things as simple as possible (when brewing and... in all the rest of my life!) and now I think I'll try to skip the secondary at all and see what happens.
Cold is coming here in Italy, and it's time to start brewing again. I'll let you know!
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Post #9 made 12 years ago
Just to let you know, it's not possible for me to skip the secondary doing this way, because I've found that the trub level in the fermentor is above the tap level! 
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Re: Re:
Post #10 made 12 years ago
May have been me (vid posted in mini-BIAB section). Definitely save a lot of buggering about doing it that waybionut wrote:I think i saw someone doing a similat thing on youtub...i can't remind who it was.
It sounds good, only that you need to use a secondary, any delay of the transfering it can get you off flavors from the trub, i think...
I like to let it in the primary for a longer time (>7 days) so i wouldn't use your method. Alse i can't really pour the wort in the fermentor because i use a keggle, LOL.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
Last edited by johnaberry on 16 Nov 2013, 05:32, edited 2 times in total.
Post #11 made 12 years ago
How would a person adjust BIABACUS to compensate for a "trub into frementer" process? I do use a hop sock, so I check that box, but typically my full post boil volume goes right into the fermenter after pitching.
trout
trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
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Post #12 made 12 years ago
You can manually override the kettle to fermenter loss (KFL) setting in section X by a percentage or value.
What to set it to is another question! You may have to do a little trial and error to find the correct level.
Setting it to zero will be correct for your VIF, but you will then have a larger FPL. Don't you just love these acronym's?
What to set it to is another question! You may have to do a little trial and error to find the correct level.
Setting it to zero will be correct for your VIF, but you will then have a larger FPL. Don't you just love these acronym's?
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #13 made 12 years ago
Acronyms? They are right up there with usernames and passwords. My blood pressure is going up just thinking about it.
Thanks for the reply Mally, Ill check it out.
trout
Thanks for the reply Mally, Ill check it out.
trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
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Post #14 made 12 years ago
Mally,
I just spent e few minutes looking at the adjustments you mentioned Mally, and setting the KFL (kettle to fermenter loss) to 0 liters does effect have significant effects the grain weights recommended. However, are you are saying that I would then also need to set the FPL (fermenter to packing loss) for the adjustments to be of any real value? I think my FPL will generally be higher than others becaause of my trub management practices(or lack there of).
trout
I just spent e few minutes looking at the adjustments you mentioned Mally, and setting the KFL (kettle to fermenter loss) to 0 liters does effect have significant effects the grain weights recommended. However, are you are saying that I would then also need to set the FPL (fermenter to packing loss) for the adjustments to be of any real value? I think my FPL will generally be higher than others becaause of my trub management practices(or lack there of).
trout
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
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Post #15 made 12 years ago
That is how I understand it. Trub will get utilised by yeast during fermentation, but most of it will still be in there as a solid, not a liquid.2trout wrote: are you are saying that I would then also need to set the FPL (fermenter to packing loss) for the adjustments to be of any real value?
What to set this to is again a trial and error thing, though may actually be small enough to ignore.
You could leave KFL at zero, leave FPL as default then compare your VIP to what the BIABacus says, and then add that correction back in on your next (if necessary).
Last edited by mally on 18 Nov 2013, 16:04, edited 2 times in total.
G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
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Post #16 made 12 years ago
Thanks Mally!
"All I know is that the beer is good and people clamor for it. OK, it's free and that has something to do with it."
Bobbrews
Bobbrews
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Post #17 made 12 years ago
Late to the thread here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents (US, Euro, or Australian). After I dump the grains out of my bag, I rinse and shake out the bag to get out the remnants. Then, when it comes time to transfer the wort to the fermenter, I sanitize the bag and line the fermenter with it. I dump in the wort (I do half batches, so I can handle the pot), lift up the bag, and let it drain. This gets rid of most of the trub and is good enough for me.
There is a danger of infecting your beer, so you have to be good about that rinse, shake, and sanitize. Just because I have not had a problem does not mean it won't happen.
There is a danger of infecting your beer, so you have to be good about that rinse, shake, and sanitize. Just because I have not had a problem does not mean it won't happen.
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Post #18 made 12 years ago
Thank you smyrnaquince. I do something like you, but after 4/5 days of fermentation, when I tranfer to secondary: I use an auto-siphon and I wrap it with the sanitized (boiled) biab bag, so I can filter the wort and leave all the trub behind. Maybe I'll try do do like you, it's a good idea, I have to try if the bag fits on the fermentor.
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Post #19 made 12 years ago
After fermentation I do not use the bag trick. Instead of siphoning, I've got a spout on my fermenter the way many people have a spout on their bottling bucket. It sits above the trub and I can pull off the fermented wort without getting any yeast trub.
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