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First AG brew.

Post #1 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
Hi All, I did my first all grain brew this weekend, although I have brewed partial mashes before while topping up with extract, this was the first all grain brew so far.

recipe was:
7.5kg Maris Otter
0.5KG Lyles golden syrup
1.5KG Invert sugar, cooked out to golden
80g Goldings @90 min
100g Goldings @30 min
Nottingham starter from a previous yeast cake. (4L starter, drained and dregs pitched.)

I thought I had more Golden syrup before I started this, so ended up having to make my own invert sugar using normal sugar and citric acid. I left it on the hob until it took on a nice deep golden colour.
I added the sugars for two reasons, 1/because I was unsure that I would fit a larger grain bill with any ease.2/I find it takes a bit of the body away and this should be a light pale ale so that works.
I was unsure of my equipment for an all grain so I decided to start by adding 70l of water to the pot and warmed that up to strike temps, then drained off two large cooking pots (about 10-11L) of water and put them on the hob to be raised to 85c later for sparging/mashing out. I know normally you don't really sparge with BIAB, but I needed the space in the mash tun for the actual mash and would top it up a little with this water if nothing else.
I mashed in at 67c and over the 90 minute mash I lost 3c and got 60l of 1.045 wort.
My water loss to grain and evaporation was a total of 10L, so the evaporation is not an awful lot at all, about 3L for a 90 minute boil.
Hand pulling was not so bad with the new voile bag, muslin is a nightmare as the holes are so small it drains much slower and you end up lifting kilos of water, the voile allowed this to escape and it was much lighter.

In all was fun and a satisfying.

It all went into my temperature controlled fridge to ferment at 18c, I'll probably bottle in 3 weeks.

<edit> I've just woprked out this is indicating an efficiency of around the 78-80 per cent, not 100% sure.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #2 made 15 years ago
by hashie
Not sure on the figures you used to work out efficiency, so I can't help you there.

3 litres loss to evap over a 90 minute boil is no where near enough. Make sure you have a good rolling boil for the whole time.

Congrats on your first AG, I hope it turns out to be a ripper.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #3 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
hashie wrote:Not sure on the figures you used to work out efficiency, so I can't help you there.

3 litres loss to evap over a 90 minute boil is no where near enough. Make sure you have a good rolling boil for the whole time.

Congrats on your first AG, I hope it turns out to be a ripper.

Hi Hashie,

I've done a few brews now and I get to boil with both elements(2*3KW) and then turn off one so I do the boil proper on 3KW. I've never had much evaporation and the boil is pretty vigorous and beers have been good so far. The climate here seems to allow for much less evaporation than you guys have over your side of the water. If I turn both elements on the boil is too vigorous, it appears to work fine for my system.

Eoin
Last edited by EoinMag on 20 Jul 2010, 15:15, edited 6 times in total.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #4 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Congratulations Eoin!

Glad to hear the voille was an improvement. 78-80% efficiency pre or post-boil is spot on. I remember reading something you wrote the other day about your low evaporation rate. We should do a thread on that I reckon. I boil off about 3 L a minute :).

You should be able to change the cell in The Calculator easily to over-ride the pre-set formula for evaporation rate.

Thanks for the report and cheers to you,
PP
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Post #5 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
PistolPatch wrote:Congratulations Eoin!

Glad to hear the voille was an improvement. 78-80% efficiency pre or post-boil is spot on. I remember reading something you wrote the other day about your low evaporation rate. We should do a thread on that I reckon. I boil off about 3 L a minute :).

You should be able to change the cell in The Calculator easily to over-ride the pre-set formula for evaporation rate.

Thanks for the report and cheers to you,
PP
Yeah changing the cell is trivial. I'm just wondering if my perception of a rolling boil is the same as everyone elses.
I'll check the next time as the real definition is a boil that won't go off the boil when stirred.
Maybe I will have to up it to the two elements, the problem then is I won't be able to walk away for fear of boilovers.

As it stands with a few partial mashes under my belt, my isomerisation etc seems to be spot on, so really I think I'm just not losing a lot to evaporation.
Last edited by EoinMag on 20 Jul 2010, 20:33, edited 6 times in total.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #6 made 15 years ago
by hashie
No worries on the boil off Eoin, if it works for you, then all is good.

I did a brew yesterday and boiled off 7 litres in 90 minutes. This rate will increase slightly in summer when the air is drier.

PP; are you sure you boil of 3 litres per minute?? I'm thinking you meant 3 litres per hour?
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #7 made 15 years ago
by dick
My idea of a rolling boil is that it is not so active such that drops of wort leave the surface then fall either back into the boil or outside the kettle. A rolling boil would be less active than this but still turning over quite strongly. It is stronger than a simmer which I think of as being where there are just weak signs of boiling.

Post #8 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
hashie wrote: PP; are you sure you boil of 3 litres per minute?? I'm thinking you meant 3 litres per hour?
No I was only joking there hashie ;) . I evaporate off about 6.5lts per hour in my 45cm diameter pot whether I single or double batch.

I've also found that the evaporation rate doesn't vary too greatly between a rolling boil and a simmer - certainly not enough to make any major difference.

Maybe Eoin, you could check what other local brewers are getting for their evaporation figures?

Like your description of the rolling boil dick ;).
Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Jul 2010, 12:35, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #9 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
I don't brew all too often with the size of the batches that I do. It's not something that I think is a problem, the boil is pretty much a rolling boil that I do, I'll just check the aspect the next time of it not going off the boil once stirred as this is the actual definition of a rolling boil as per google.

I'm not concerned that something is wrong, my beers are good and the bitterness while maybe not meeting the exact figures in the brewing software seem fine, so I'm not gonna particularly try to fix something that I don't consider broken, but reading up on why a rolling boil is necessary, it concerns me slightly that my processes may be less repeatable.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #10 made 15 years ago
by gibbo1
I just put down my first BIAB today, a JS Amber Ale. Grain bill was 5332g of JW ale malt, (4894g), Caramunich 2 (388g) and JW choc malt (50g).

I was aiming for a 66 deg mash, put the bag and grain in at 65 deg, and brought temp up to 66 deg. Checked after 30 mins and still 66 deg. (good insulation). However when I removed all the covering after 60 mins and dug the thermometer deeper into the mash I was getting readings into the early 70's. I guess I didn't stir it well enough even though I thought I did. Hopefully I didn't cook it too hot.

Anyway BG of 1044 with no mash out and very little squeezing of the bag as I already had my boil volume , that's 83.1% efficiency. I was planning on doing a mash out but thought I already had the efficiency. I know it doesn't sound right but I took numerous readings, even let the samples cool a bit.

60 min boil with Willamette (55g at 60 mins and 45g at 15 mins and 1/2 a whirfloc) to come out with an OG of 1052. I upped the flavour hops as I already had the bittering hops in to try and counter act the higher mash temp.

Hopefully it will ferment out to a reasonable FG and not stay too high. Yeast was a US-05.

Post #12 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
Eoin - Like the way you're thinking. If the beer is tasting great then that is the real priority. Many brewers concentrate too much on figures rather then flavour. Good on you!

Gibbo - Thanks for the report Gibbo :). All sounds good and remember not to worry too much about figures on any single brew. I think it is a good idea to stir regularly with a potato type masher (see The Master Guide) and take temp checks after the stir. It will help give you a "feel" for what goes on. For example, with some kettles set-ups, after you turn the flame off, the temp will continue to rise due to radiation. Once you get a "feel" for what is going on and when, then you can start to get lazier. Mind you, plenty of brewers start lazy and produce great beer. The main thing is to have an accurate thermometer so as you are not mashing way out of your desired temp.

I wouldn't be worried about the high temp thing. Most batch-sparge brewers get this on every brew they do - some parts of their mash are low and some are high.

Look forward to hearing how she tastes! Cheers,
PP
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Post #13 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
I just took a gravity reading on this as it's down a week now. It's down to 1.010 and is tasting brilliant.
Another two weeks to settle a bit and finish up and then I'll bottle/keg.

So far I'm very pleased with my first all-grain. Can't wait to move onto the next challenge which will be an all-grain pilsner in two or three weeks, I have the liquid yeast ordered already.

I'm also looking at laying down the first years batch of a geuze for a blast. Want to split that in three once blended and do a Kriek and a framboise, long term project :)
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #14 made 15 years ago
by hashie
I don't know how you have the patience EoinMag, I'd be wanting to keg that beer asap so I could be drinking it. Good on you for having the patience to wait.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #15 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
hashie wrote:I don't know how you have the patience EoinMag, I'd be wanting to keg that beer asap so I could be drinking it. Good on you for having the patience to wait.

It's simple, 60l batches.

I presently have about 70l kegged/bottled already.

I am gonna lay down a cider in the next few days, well Graff, but it's a cider of sorts.

http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/2010/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... cider.html
Last edited by EoinMag on 26 Jul 2010, 15:24, edited 6 times in total.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #16 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
I bottled this up at the weekend, it got right down to 1.010, so a pretty low terminal gravity, that'll have come from all the invert sugar. It's tasting great at the moment and can only improve after condition.
I got one King Keg, two ten litre cases and one 6l case full out of it, so about 50l all told once bottled.

I'm loving the lighter colour that's come from the all-grain, it gets boring when all your light beers are the same colour due to the fact that extract will only go so light.

I'm looking forward to this one.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.

Post #17 made 15 years ago
by SacSoul
EoinMag wrote:I bottled this up at the weekend, it got right down to 1.010, so a pretty low terminal gravity, that'll have come from all the invert sugar. It's tasting great at the moment and can only improve after condition.
I got one King Keg, two ten litre cases and one 6l case full out of it, so about 50l all told once bottled.

I'm loving the lighter colour that's come from the all-grain, it gets boring when all your light beers are the same colour due to the fact that extract will only go so light.

I'm looking forward to this one.
Congrats EoinMag! I too have been very happy with the colors that I can produce with AG.
Last edited by SacSoul on 09 Aug 2010, 21:52, edited 6 times in total.
Arrogant Bastard Ale: "...Perhaps you think multi-million dollar ad campaigns make a beer taste better. Perhaps you're mouthing your words as you read this."

Post #18 made 15 years ago
by hashie
Good one EoinMag.

The beer I made this week was a Cream Ale. I managed to get the colour at 5.1 EBC with OG 1046. No way you could do that with extract.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #19 made 15 years ago
by gibbo1
gibbo1 wrote:I just put down my first BIAB today, a JS Amber Ale. Grain bill was 5332g of JW ale malt, (4894g), Caramunich 2 (388g) and JW choc malt (50g).

I was aiming for a 66 deg mash, put the bag and grain in at 65 deg, and brought temp up to 66 deg. Checked after 30 mins and still 66 deg. (good insulation). However when I removed all the covering after 60 mins and dug the thermometer deeper into the mash I was getting readings into the early 70's. I guess I didn't stir it well enough even though I thought I did. Hopefully I didn't cook it too hot.

Anyway BG of 1044 with no mash out and very little squeezing of the bag as I already had my boil volume , that's 83.1% efficiency. I was planning on doing a mash out but thought I already had the efficiency. I know it doesn't sound right but I took numerous readings, even let the samples cool a bit.

60 min boil with Willamette (55g at 60 mins and 45g at 15 mins and 1/2 a whirfloc) to come out with an OG of 1052. I upped the flavour hops as I already had the bittering hops in to try and counter act the higher mash temp.

Hopefully it will ferment out to a reasonable FG and not stay too high. Yeast was a US-05.
Just tried the JSAA, it seems a little low in the flavour department, surprising since I loaded it up with flavour hops. Could it be because maybe I might have mashed it a little warm? Still tastes good though. It did ferment all the way out as expected but I have tried a JSAA with less hops and it had tons more flavour.

Thanks.
Last edited by gibbo1 on 16 Aug 2010, 12:34, edited 6 times in total.

Post #20 made 15 years ago
by redlegger
HI gibbo, i found my JSAA really hit its stride after about 3-4 weeks
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.” – Dave Berry

Post #21 made 15 years ago
by EoinMag
I think I'd back off on the sugar with this one the next time, maybe drop it down to a kilo instead of two, I drank a good few of them with a mate at the weekend, and granted it's quite green still, but I had a pretty big headache from it. I'm putting that down to the sugars at this point. Taste is very good though.
http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/ My blog, If you like what you read post a comment on the blog comments section thanks, BIAB post coming soon.
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