Some BIAB brewers said they get up to a gallon (almost 4 liters) of Trub for a 5 gallon (20 liter) batch. That seems like a lot.
How much Trub do you get when using BIAB compared to traditional mashing?
Is it because we can crush finer? Maybe the mag weave is too coarse?
Post #2 made 13 years ago
Arclight,
You get the same about of trub with BIAB. You don't need to crush the grain to a powder. many people coming over from traditional 3V are disturbed by the cloudy wort that BIAB produces. It has no bearing on the clarity of the beer. I no/chill so most of the trub goes into my no/chill container. It settles out and when I move the wort into the fermenting bucket it's clear.
I am not sure what "Mag Weave" is? I use Swiss voil (shear drapery material) that is double lined.
You get the same about of trub with BIAB. You don't need to crush the grain to a powder. many people coming over from traditional 3V are disturbed by the cloudy wort that BIAB produces. It has no bearing on the clarity of the beer. I no/chill so most of the trub goes into my no/chill container. It settles out and when I move the wort into the fermenting bucket it's clear.
I am not sure what "Mag Weave" is? I use Swiss voil (shear drapery material) that is double lined.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #3 made 13 years ago
Bob,
If BIAB produces cloudier wort into the fermentor, that implies some extra protein or grain particles. It's not that the beer wont be clear, there will just be less of it, since instead of 19 liters of beer, we will get 18, as there is extra trub.
Should one add a liter to the kettle (and that is brought over to the fermentor), to account for the extra trub?
If BIAB produces cloudier wort into the fermentor, that implies some extra protein or grain particles. It's not that the beer wont be clear, there will just be less of it, since instead of 19 liters of beer, we will get 18, as there is extra trub.
Should one add a liter to the kettle (and that is brought over to the fermentor), to account for the extra trub?
Post #4 made 13 years ago
ArcLight,
I can't see anything wrong with that? I "topoff" many times with no ill effects. For me I don't worry about extracting every drop of wort. If I get 19 or 18 liters it makes no difference to me. I lose sleep if I have to actually measure anything because I don't do numbers. I thank my lucky stars that beer is so forgiving. I could not brew if I had to be correct on amounts and weights.
I can't see anything wrong with that? I "topoff" many times with no ill effects. For me I don't worry about extracting every drop of wort. If I get 19 or 18 liters it makes no difference to me. I lose sleep if I have to actually measure anything because I don't do numbers. I thank my lucky stars that beer is so forgiving. I could not brew if I had to be correct on amounts and weights.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV
http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #5 made 13 years ago
BIAB "is"" the new traditionArcLight wrote:BIAB compared to traditional mashing?
Hi Arc
To answer your question I get at a guess about 2 litres using voile, I haven't brewed AG any other way so I have nothing to compare too. I don't worry too much about it and it is what it is.
My syphon works pretty neat as a filter so I get clear wort and nearly all of it out of the kettle. I use leaf hops by the way, I havent tried it with pellets yet.
Interested to see what your bag is made of though .
Yeasty
Last edited by Yeasty on 20 Sep 2012, 22:17, edited 3 times in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #6 made 13 years ago
Good Day ArcLight, I install a old BIAB into the kettle, right after the grains come out.
A very large HOP SACK.
The pellet hops I use go in, as do the Flavor/Aroma hops.
At the end of boil the hot break is mostly captured by the Hop Trub, and all is removed leaving about 500ml/7oz of cold break.
I toss that into the No-Chill Cube, and the most of that goes to the fermenter.
Overall, On a 13L/12qt batch I now have a total of 750ml/0.8Quart of trub/yeast loss.
So I start with an extra Quart/.93l start volume to compensate.
A very large HOP SACK.
The pellet hops I use go in, as do the Flavor/Aroma hops.
At the end of boil the hot break is mostly captured by the Hop Trub, and all is removed leaving about 500ml/7oz of cold break.
I toss that into the No-Chill Cube, and the most of that goes to the fermenter.
Overall, On a 13L/12qt batch I now have a total of 750ml/0.8Quart of trub/yeast loss.
So I start with an extra Quart/.93l start volume to compensate.
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America
-
Post #7 made 13 years ago
>>BIAB "is"" the new tradition
Ok, what is the term for non-BIAB mashing? I don't want to disparage the pour souls who have not seen the wisdom of BIAB :-)
>>Interested to see what your bag is made of though .
I just got a voile bag. Previously I had been using a cotton laundry bag. It worked ok, but I hope the voile bag is better.
Ok, what is the term for non-BIAB mashing? I don't want to disparage the pour souls who have not seen the wisdom of BIAB :-)
>>Interested to see what your bag is made of though .
I just got a voile bag. Previously I had been using a cotton laundry bag. It worked ok, but I hope the voile bag is better.
Post #8 made 13 years ago
I'd go with "non-BIAB mashing"joshua wrote:Ok, what is the term for non-BIAB mashing? I don't want to disparage the pour souls who have not seen the wisdom of BIAB :-)
Your in a great position there Arc to see the difference first hand whilst the results of your old bag are still fresh in your mind. Be sure to let us know how it goes..ArcLight wrote:I just got a voile bag. Previously I had been using a cotton laundry bag. It worked ok, but I hope the voile bag is better.
Last edited by Yeasty on 21 Sep 2012, 03:20, edited 3 times in total.
Why is everyone talking about "Cheese"
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 50 Brews From Great Britain
-
Post #9 made 13 years ago
I'm a bit OCD when brewing and I want to transfer as little trub as possible - I just think it's best to leave it behind and it makes repitching yeast A LOT easier when you don't have as much trub to separate. I also don't like using hop bags so I free-ball it (regardless of what I'm brewing). I try to transfer 5.25 gallons into the fermenter, I leave behind 1.25 to 1.5 gallons of wort in the kettle (1.5 for bigger hop loads).
What I do is at whirlfloc (half tablet) 5 minutes before the end of the boil. I chill with an IC, remove the chiller, and stir with a sanitized spoon until I get a real good vortex going. I then let the kettle sit undisturbed for at least a half hour (sometimes longer, depends what I'm doing in the meantime) - preferably an hour before I open the valve and fill up the carboy. I typically have no visible trub line at the bottom of the Better Bottle - sometimes a real thin layer (which I'm not worried about).
Here are some pictures to show how well this works (this batch was about 10 (4.4kg) lbs grist and about 3 oz (87g) hops):
What I do is at whirlfloc (half tablet) 5 minutes before the end of the boil. I chill with an IC, remove the chiller, and stir with a sanitized spoon until I get a real good vortex going. I then let the kettle sit undisturbed for at least a half hour (sometimes longer, depends what I'm doing in the meantime) - preferably an hour before I open the valve and fill up the carboy. I typically have no visible trub line at the bottom of the Better Bottle - sometimes a real thin layer (which I'm not worried about).
Here are some pictures to show how well this works (this batch was about 10 (4.4kg) lbs grist and about 3 oz (87g) hops):
Last edited by natept on 17 Oct 2012, 09:02, edited 3 times in total.
Post #10 made 13 years ago
Ferment then CC (0-1c) a minimum seven days. In my case, syphon from above 'compacted' trub and clear beer results.
eg. dump entire cooled wort into fermenter...
;-)
eg. dump entire cooled wort into fermenter...
;-)
Post #11 made 13 years ago
There's a fair bit of mythology about on BIAB trub. There are many things to consider when 'lautering' and most of these things are actually irrelevant to BIAB.
Here's a few things off the top of my head...
Preventing Trub into the Boil
1. Is a bit of trub/cloudiness bad in the boil? - No.
2. If you want to reduce it, in traditional batch-sparging, you drain from the mash tun tap until the wort rund clear and pour that wort back into the top of the mash tun. If you have a tap on your kettle and BIAB, you can also do this. (I hate taps so I don't do this).
3. You can use a finer bag. It will take longer to drain though and what is the advantage of a less cloudy wort? GO back to 1 above.
One thing that you often hear on the net is to crush your grain really fine for BIAB. Don't do that!!! There are heaps of BIAB'ers out there pulverising their malt to dust. That means the wooded tanniny part of your grain bill that should be acting as a pre-filter before the bag gets lost.
A lot of bags being sold as BIAB bags are too coarse. Imagine doing a fine crush in a coarse bag. You'll just end up with a slow-draining sludge!!!
The bag I currently use is 40 threads per cm.
Preventing Trub Into the Fermentor
Using your BIAB bag used as a hop sock, loosely suspended in the kettle so as it lazilly floats around has no disadvantages so why not use it? It will approximately halve your kettle trub.
natept uses a whirlpool after his chill and this will achieve similiar results. (Make sure you pitch your yeast soon after, of course.)
He also mentioned 1/2 tab Whirfloc at 5 mins before end of boil (the correct time). This can never hurt can it?
There is a lot to consider in this area though that needs exploring but don't start me on that - lol!
Preventing Trub into Packaging
Thylacine mentioned crash-chilling your fermentor. Crash-chilling your fermentor at 0 C for 4- 7 days before transferring to a keg works very well. You'll get about 500 mls of trub from 23 L of fermented beer. Without crash-chilling you'd be starting to see cloudy beer at about 1.5 L.
Many brewers can't crash-chill so transferring to a secondary before bottling may well be a sensible idea. Or perhaps using a filter? (Filters are pretty clumsy and messy though
)
If You Still have Cloudy Beer
I have cloudy beer again this year (just a very slight haze). Had it once before in the last 7 or so years. This is probably due to a change in grain or water - who knows? It's certainly nothing to do with trub management though. If I wanted to clear it up, which I couldn't be bothered doing, then I would have to use isinglass in my fermentor at very cold temps. Can't be bothered and will hope for better grain or water next year.
PP
Here's a few things off the top of my head...
Preventing Trub into the Boil
1. Is a bit of trub/cloudiness bad in the boil? - No.
2. If you want to reduce it, in traditional batch-sparging, you drain from the mash tun tap until the wort rund clear and pour that wort back into the top of the mash tun. If you have a tap on your kettle and BIAB, you can also do this. (I hate taps so I don't do this
).3. You can use a finer bag. It will take longer to drain though and what is the advantage of a less cloudy wort? GO back to 1 above
.One thing that you often hear on the net is to crush your grain really fine for BIAB. Don't do that!!! There are heaps of BIAB'ers out there pulverising their malt to dust. That means the wooded tanniny part of your grain bill that should be acting as a pre-filter before the bag gets lost.
A lot of bags being sold as BIAB bags are too coarse. Imagine doing a fine crush in a coarse bag. You'll just end up with a slow-draining sludge!!!
The bag I currently use is 40 threads per cm.
Preventing Trub Into the Fermentor
Using your BIAB bag used as a hop sock, loosely suspended in the kettle so as it lazilly floats around has no disadvantages so why not use it? It will approximately halve your kettle trub.
natept uses a whirlpool after his chill and this will achieve similiar results. (Make sure you pitch your yeast soon after, of course.)
He also mentioned 1/2 tab Whirfloc at 5 mins before end of boil (the correct time). This can never hurt can it?
There is a lot to consider in this area though that needs exploring but don't start me on that - lol!
Preventing Trub into Packaging
Thylacine mentioned crash-chilling your fermentor. Crash-chilling your fermentor at 0 C for 4- 7 days before transferring to a keg works very well. You'll get about 500 mls of trub from 23 L of fermented beer. Without crash-chilling you'd be starting to see cloudy beer at about 1.5 L.
Many brewers can't crash-chill so transferring to a secondary before bottling may well be a sensible idea. Or perhaps using a filter? (Filters are pretty clumsy and messy though
)If You Still have Cloudy Beer
I have cloudy beer again this year (just a very slight haze). Had it once before in the last 7 or so years. This is probably due to a change in grain or water - who knows? It's certainly nothing to do with trub management though. If I wanted to clear it up, which I couldn't be bothered doing, then I would have to use isinglass in my fermentor at very cold temps. Can't be bothered and will hope for better grain or water next year.
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 18 Oct 2012, 22:55, edited 3 times in total.
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
-
- SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From Australia
-
