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Experimenting on your own

Post #1 made 14 years ago
by cipher
Hi,

I have done two BIAB's where I created my own recipes with what I had. Both came out really great and I am very pleased!

My question is the following : Can one really make a bad beer? I think I need to mention though that I adhere to the maximum percentages of grain allowed in a brew (dark malt only 10% while 100% can be pale malt etc.). The question of beer styles come into play as well!

I tried using Beersmith to create recipes but, most of it is a bit confusing. I do not just chuck together everything and see what comes out at the other end. I know what a specific type of malt contributes to the flavour and aroma of beer, and work according to that. I think it comes from my way of cooking ... I know what goes well together and experiment (so far, no flops!)

I would like to plumb the feeling regarding this. Is this type of brewing frowned upon in brewing circles?

cheers ... :smoke:

Post #2 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Good Day Cipher, I have tryed most all programs, and I am sorry to say BrewTarget http://brewtarget.sourceforge.net/ is still the best program for picking a brew style, and adding grains and hops to match that style....(Sorry guys, the Calculator is good but difficult to write a new brew styles). Also, if you have time pick up "Designing Great Beers" by Ray Daniels. It has ideas on how to meet BJCP characteristics for many styles of beer. Hope this helps.
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Post #3 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Hi cipher, I often design my own beers with what I have to hand.

First of all, I don't think it is possible to make a bad beer, if you use quality ingredients and have sanitary brewing practices.

When I design a beer, I make the recipe and then try and find a style that will fit to the beer. Rather than doing the opposite, which I think is the norm.

As to programs, I would love it if there was a program that said, after inputting data, your recipe falls within these x styles.

Cheers
Last edited by hashie on 15 Nov 2011, 04:35, edited 4 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #4 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Good Day Hashie, Most BJCP styles overlap a little bit...Check class's 10,11 and 12, Try to make a beer that does not fit in more than 1 class. You must be very careful with ingredients.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Single Vessel BIAB is all I need....Until we figure out the no vessel technique
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #5 made 14 years ago
by PistolPatch
I like the way you are thinking cipher. The best guys I know at designing recipes started out doing what you are doing. Trying different grains, trying different hops, yeasts etc.

Beer styles can help you describe a beer. Comprehensive beer style guidelines can help you formulate a beer style you wish to copy.

Beer software, and I've been studying them all for well over five years now, including BrewTarget, are very poor tools when it comes to beer designing. If you can understand them and set them up properly, then you have to hope their formulas are right, (and there are many errors out there), the best they can do is tell you if your design is too high or too low in gravity, bitterness or colour. That's it :sad:.

No brewing software pops up and says, "Why on earth are you using American hops in this English recipe?" etc :lol:

I can use any software to design a wheat beer for example and be told by the software I am in style even though my recipe has no wheat :roll:.

What you are doing is the right way to go. Good on you :salute:
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Post #7 made 14 years ago
by Pat
[center]ADMIN NOTE[/center]

Just checked with joshua and he meant to say 'The Calculator' in his first post here, not 'the BIABacus' so I have edited it. The existing calculator here has no style functionality. The new calculator being developed will have gravity and bitterness style tools, with the limitations that apply to all software as PP describes above. The initial release probably won't deal with colour as the benefits versus a further delay in release are not warranted. This decision has not been finalised as yet though.
Last edited by Pat on 15 Nov 2011, 06:57, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #8 made 14 years ago
by stux
hashie wrote:Hi cipher, I often design my own beers with what I have to hand.

First of all, I don't think it is possible to make a bad beer, if you use quality ingredients and have sanitary brewing practices.

When I design a beer, I make the recipe and then try and find a style that will fit to the beer. Rather than doing the opposite, which I think is the norm.

As to programs, I would love it if there was a program that said, after inputting data, your recipe falls within these x styles.

Cheers
Brew pal on the iPhone does this. Cool feature.

It's not a bad program actually. I used it to make my first recipes
Last edited by stux on 15 Nov 2011, 07:00, edited 4 times in total.
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Post #10 made 14 years ago
by hashie
stux wrote:
Brew pal on the iPhone does this. Cool feature.

It's not a bad program actually. I used it to make my first recipes
Thanks stux, but that will be no good for me. Believe it or not, I don't have a mobile phone of any sort and can't see myself getting one :)
Last edited by hashie on 15 Nov 2011, 13:31, edited 4 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #11 made 14 years ago
by cipher
All of the comments are music to my ears! I thought everyone will be like : "You have to use standard recipes" or "You will not be brewing according to a style and this is wrong".

But I guess, at the end of the day, all beers can be fit into a certain style of beer one way or another. When cooking, I cannot wait for the result and it is the same with my beers ... I cannot wait to test if my "experiment" is great or what!

Could beer be like sex? There is no such thing as bad sex! ;)

Post #12 made 14 years ago
by joshua
Good Day, In the 70's it was said "beer, sex and pizza, are all the same...If their good, their Great! If they are not....Their still pretty good!"
Honest Officer, I swear to Drunk, I am Not God.
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #13 made 14 years ago
by hashie
cipher wrote: Could beer be like sex? There is no such thing as bad sex! ;)
There is no such thing as bad beer, only good beer and better beer :)
Last edited by hashie on 16 Nov 2011, 05:06, edited 4 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #14 made 14 years ago
by heeler
hashie wrote:
cipher wrote: Could beer be like sex? There is no such thing as bad sex! ;)
There is no such thing as bad beer, only good beer and better beer :)
Fellas I beg to differ.....I made several extract kits that absolutely sucked. Now I'm not saying it wasn't my fault but still it is possible to make sh--y beer. Even time did'nt help. I've learned enough now to know the BIAB method is the way to go, thus no more bad beer. :champ: I even look forward to brewing again.
Last edited by heeler on 19 Nov 2011, 07:33, edited 4 times in total.

Post #15 made 14 years ago
by hashie
Good on you heeler, glad to hear your beer prospects are looking up.

To take my statement in context, "there is only good beer and better beer", if you don't like my good beer then there's more beer for me :)

Not saying there isn't shitty beer out there or been made by me, but all beer is good beer.

Clear as mud.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #16 made 14 years ago
by heeler
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that might have messed up a brew or three. Trying to convince myself its cheaper to make my own is pretty tough when you have to dump it. :headhit:

Post #17 made 14 years ago
by Beachbum
As long as you stick to fairly core ingredients and don't go too off the planet you can't really fail. However I do know a couple of guys, including one who makes absolutely divine "standard" type ales who has a fascination with inventing weird stuff like "Pandanus infused Geuze Saison crossover red rye" concoctions that have everyone backing out of the nearest door (or diving out of nearest window) when he approaches you with his sample bottle, the one with the green fog drifting out of the top. :o
Top bloke and he has a lot of fun inventing stuff so I'm not criticizing his enthusiasm.

My weirdest beer recently was actually a historical style, a typical 1960s UK Keg beer of the Double Diamond ilk, from the 70s book "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" - it only contained 2.5k of base malt, as few hops as you can get away with, without provoking riots in Liverpool, the rest being various syrups and a big bag of Demerara Sugar beloved of the Brits.

It tastes like caramel central and I don't mind it but I've had people at the club meeting screwing their faces up. Yes that's exactly why CAMRA was such a runaway success :thumbs:

Edit: I have an elderly Welsh friend from Cwmbran who hasn't been back since the 1960s and used to drink Double Diamond all the time. I took him a few pints of my concoction and his Mrs confided later that he actually broke down in tears when he drank mine - I take it that was a compliment :think:
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