stux wrote:
I haven't factored in the second boil-down you want to do for caramelization... but the point really was to demonstrate the difference between splitting or sparging

which is basically an extra 1.5KG of grain.

Your choice

Ok Stux, what would you recommend I do with your calculator to factor in the second boil-down that I plan to do for caramelization? Should I bump up the total evaporation on line 17 by the amount I plan to boil down. Or would it be better to pretend like I'm not doing it with your calculator and then just ad extra water to the sparge pot to compensate for the expected loss from boil down?

I've been playing around with this a lot and trying to work out different scenario's and I noticed that in one particular scenario my Expected First Run-off Volume (17.17L) + Pre-boil Sparge Topup (5.36L) + Boil Sparge Topup (11.24L) + Boil Freshwater Topup (.58L) - Total Evaporation (14.5L) = 19.85L. My Desired Fermenter volume is set to 20L so shouldn't that have come out to 20L? Where did the other .15L go?

BTW, the reason my total Evaporation is so high is because I plan to do a 2 hour boil where I will loose about 7.5L. I also plan to pull off some of the first runnings (another 7.5L) to boil it down to .5L for caramelization. That's a total loss of 14.5L.

I just realized I've been playing with the "CE BIAB Calc" tab without updating anything on the "Grains" tab. Will changes made on the grains tab effect the results on the calc tab? If so, how do I add grains to the grains tab. It looks like I need to enter an FGDB% but I don't know what that is. For instance, I want to add Maris Otter but all I know for this malt is what I can find here.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Maris_Otter

Can you help me figure out what numbers go where?

stux wrote:Can you also tell me what numbers you use to get that into fermenter inconsistency?

I was worried that maybe I screwed something up in the sheet playing around with the numbers so I went back and downloaded a fresh version. I tried to go through and re enter all of the values but for some reason in the one that I just downloaded I now can't update the "Total Evaporation value". Whenever I click on that cell it gives me an error on that cell. Either way, the numbers still don't add up.

"Gannon Wee Heavy.xlsm" is the one I was playing with. You'll see I added some notes and stuff to help me understand what everything is. The other one is the fresh download with the error code. Maybe you can figure out what I did wrong.

stux wrote:What grains are in your recipe?

And preferably what brand of grain would you get

http://www.muntons.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
16.5 pounds Maris Otter
.25 pounds Roasted Barley
.25 pounds Dark Crystal

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.25 pounds Carapils Malt
.25 pounds Caramel 120L Malt

http://www.cargill.com/food/na/en/produ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... /index.jsp
.25 pounds Special B

A little digging around on the Briess site and I think I was able to find the numbers I needed. No luck with Muntons or Dingemans though.

So it turns out having my actual grain bill entered in does change the values. But only by like 0.0X on a couple. For instance the "Grain Bill" went from 8.58 to 8.573. Very Minimal, but I suppose it does make a difference.

Here is a new thought. What is the best way to account for a yeast starter. Mr. Malty recommends a 1.7L starter. If I poured that in, I would overshoot my into fermenter volume. Also, wouldn't the gravity/volume of the starter effect the overall original gravity of the wart. Not the end of the world but something to think about.

I'm not sure if anyone other than stux is still following this thread, but I thought since I just finished typing up my brew day plan/notes for this, that I'd post them for you guys. Rather than retyping it all up though, I've attached it as a pdf. It's formatted nicer as a pdf anyway. The little blue/red notes are targets that I came up with using stux's calculator. I've also attached my recipe incase anyone is interested.

There are a couple things I still wouldn't mind input on though.

The first thing is, since I plan to perform a 30 min dunk sparge, do you think I should start the boil going on the first runnings right away, or hold their temp and wait to start the boil once they are combined? I would think If I started the boil, it would drop off as soon as I added the sparge anyway. Unless I started a second boil in the sparge pot, while the first boil was going, and then once they are both boiling, adding them together. This could be dangerous though with trying to transfer boiling wort.

The other question is, and it kind of relates to the first, is how long do you think it will take to boil down the 7.5L of wort to a syrup. I'd hate to be finishing up my boil before I've even gotten the wort boiled down. That's kind of why I'm thinking of pulling the 7.5L right away and getting that going while the 30 min dunk sparge is going on, and then combining and starting the main boil. That would give me more of a head start on the caramelization. My only question with that would be what temp to hold the first runnings at while I'm doing the sparge etc.

stux wrote:My big concern is your mash temp, is it not to high? With that temp you'll have a very high finishing gravity, this might be what you want, but a high OG will naturally give you a high finishing gravity (there is only so much attenuation

If a normal brew at 66C goes from 1.050 to 1.010 then a 1.100 brew could be expected to go to 1.020. At 68C I fear you might finish at 1.035-1.040. Is that what you want?

PS I have never done a 1.100 brew, and if all your research says to use 68C then great

If you are looking at the recipe, I just noticed that is a typo. I was originally thinking of going higher based on an article from beersmith.com. Here is a quote:

"A look at traditional brewing of Scottish ales reveals that these ales were mashed with one or at most two steps, usually at high temperature (often above 160F!) and sparged slowly and often fermented at relatively cold temperatures. The combination no doubt produced a beer full of body and resulted in very low attenuation of the yeast."
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2008/09/0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... er-styles/

Anyway, I couldn't find anyone who would recommend anything over 158ºF so I eventually decided to go lower. I changed the mash schedule in Beer Alchemy, but forgot to rename it. The plan is to mash at 154ºF for 90 min and to dunk sparge at 158º for 30 min. I've been talking to a friend who is a brewer at New Holland http://www.newhollandbrew.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and who is opening a his own brewery next year and he said he mashes his wee heavy at 156ºF. So, I thought I'd give something like that a shot.

I'm hoping to finish around 1.020 1.030 but I honestly don't know how to calculate if this is actually possible, other than to try it. As far as I know, no software will adjust attenuation based on mash temp. Maybe that's the next challenge for you to tackle Stux.

Just realized that you were referring to the correct temp. I am planning on mashing at ~68ºC. The typo in the recipe said 70ºC - 74ºC.

Here is the updated recipe with the typo fixed. Original download deleted.

Just as an FYI, Stux's calculator calculates 77.8% efficiency and a 8.573 KG grain bill if I want to hit my target 1.100 O.G. with 20 L into the fermenter. With the exact same grain bill and final wort volume plugged into Beer Alchemy (well as close as I can get it) I get 73.5% efficiency. About a 5% difference. I can't wait to Brew this on Sunday and find out which one I come closest too. Place your bets now.

stux wrote:Most important reading for verifying the calculator at high gravity will be the first running sg

Most important for verifying the sparge modelling (which has never been tested) is the gravity of your second runnings (ie in the dunk sparge)

I would think the amount of time spent in the dunk sparge would make a difference.

Will my plan to leave the specialty grains (exactly 1 lb) out of the main mash and only put them in the sparge affect any of data that you might be hoping to glean from this brew? If so I can adjust my plan.

de5m0mike wrote: I would think the amount of time spent in the dunk sparge would make a difference.

Will my plan to leave the specialty grains (exactly 1 lb) out of the main mash and only put them in the sparge affect any of data that you might be hoping to glean from this brew? If so I can adjust my plan.

My plan was sabotaged. I went to buy the grains with my buddy tonight and he poured the specialty malts in the same bag with the base malts. I guess everything is all going in together now.

So, if I'm planning a 2 hour mash and I have two pots heated to mash temp, would it make sense that I would get the most extraction by doing 1 hour in each pot, or should I just do the whole mash in one pot and do a quick dunk sparge? I'm thinking two pots at 1 hour each.