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There went my BIAB virginity

Post #1 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
Uh. It was a long but fun day. I've spent the last month or so preparing for this first brew, and I think that it went quite nicely.

The recipe was All Amarillo APA, with Amarillo substituted to Cascade.

We began by adding 14 grams gypsum, 8 grams Epsom salt, 2 grams sodium chloride and 2 grams of chalk, so we ended up what Bru'nwater spreadsheet defines as "Pale Ale" water profile. It was quite a lot of powders so I got a bit hesitant, but the water tasted nice so I just went ahead and trusted my calculations. We also added a Campden tablet to get rid of chloramine and what not.

We have a crappy gas burner, but a friend welded a wind cover for us which helped some. I filled the kettle with 40 liters of the hottest water I got out of my water heater, and we started at 58C and arrived 25 mins later at strike-in temp of 68,5. After adding the grain the temps fell a bit too much, but we got it back up soon enough. Quite problematic to measure the temps; they are something different on the bottom and on the surface! We let the malts simmer there for 90 mins, stirring twice, and then we did a mash-out by raising the temps to 77C, while keeping the grain bag up a bit not to burn it.

It was a really windy day here which didn't actually help with with getting the wort to boil, but after an hour we got there. I would have liked to have gotten a bit stronger boil, but it was ok I guess. Hop pellets were added in small bags of Voile- fabric, I was not sure if they are the best? They seemed to hold some air in them that kept the bags floating on the surface.

With 10 mins left of the boil I added a capsule of White LAbs Servomyces yeast nutrient, but the capsule never dissolved completely? Next time I'l just open it add pour the powder out.

We chilled with a copper coil chiller. It took just about an hour to chill, I was expecting it to go a bit more quickly, but that was it. The temps were also hard to measure at this point, because the colder stuff seemed to be at the bottom, and I was hesitant to go stirring too much so I wouldn't contaminate the stuff.

At this point I got a bit careless; we poured the wort from high up and nicely splashing into the fermenter, but I didn't check the temps (!) and really did no more aerating, before pouring in the WHite Lab liquid yeast (1 tube) and closing the lid. I do have a stick-on thermometer on my fermenting bucket, and that showed 23C's, so maybe it's all ok and I didn't kill the yeast.

It was fun, now I'm just waiting for the bubbling to begin. We didn't have a gravity meter, so I have no idea of any reading. The wort tasted nice and sweet, but it got a lot darker than what I anticipated.

Afterwards as I was cleaning the kettle there was this white stuff left at the bottom, like chalk or something grainy white stuff. What is that? Also, I thought I did a good job of cleaning the copper chiller before inserting it in the wort, but nevertheless, it was quite a bit more shiny once it was taken out; is that dangerous?

I'm still happy even if it turns out it was all in vain :champ:
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #2 made 11 years ago
by monkeyman
Good job on your first brew day. The white stuff at the bottom could have been the chalk. From what I've read it doesn't dissolve well. I have never used it for that reason but since I have never used it I might be talking out of my arse. I am always excited to see the yeast starting to kick off. Let us know how it turned out. :champ:

Post #3 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
hmmm. Itś 16 hrs later and no bubbles. I know that the internet is full of posts by nervous newbie brewer's being nervous about their yeasts lag time, so I'll wait a bit more before getting panicking. Is it possible to re-aerate now? I'm kicking myself on the butt for not remembering to aerate :headhit:

Btw, the wort never got perfectly clear, there was a lot of "material" (is that the hot break stuff?) floating around all the time, although it did get smaller. I was thinking should it settle more firmly to the bottom already during the boil? And is this something caused by a not so strong of a boil? Now as I look at the fermenter, I can see even through the white plastic that there's a lot of stuff settled on the bottom already.
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #4 made 11 years ago
by Hints
You can still aerate now by shaking the fermentor. It is not too late. Well done.

[Please note that Hints does not reply to direct questions.]
Last edited by Hints on 07 Aug 2014, 18:24, edited 1 time in total.

Post #5 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
Ok thanks. I did that, shook the bucket quite a bit.

Other thing I was thinking about was that when you pour the yeast to the fermenter, and we at least had quite a bit of Star San foam there on the bottom and everywhere, doesn't it kill the yeast if it kills all other germs as well?
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #6 made 11 years ago
by bundy
I would normally pitch the yeast on top of the beer not the beer onto the yeast, but in theory either way should be fine.

As for star San, from what I understand it's primarily phosphoric acid. Which yeast are supposed to like. Phosphoric acid is widely used in the diary industry as it's food friendly as far as acids go and again is kind on milk and other food products. Also used in making coca cola as well! Oh and it's great for cleaning tea staining or rust marks off stainless steel! (Is there anything this stuff can't do?)

So from that and I have no scientific proof just what I have read yeast like phosphoric acid, (they wash yeast with it also - google it) so you should be fine. If after 2 days you don't see any activity then start to get worried but I expect you'll see some action soon.

PS anyone in perth after some phosphoric acid sanitizer I have 20 litres on the way! :lol:

that's about a 200 year supply for a home brewer!
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Post #7 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
Itś 16 hrs later and no bubbles. I know that the internet is full of posts by nervous newbie brewer's being nervous about their yeasts lag time, so I'll wait a bit more before getting panicking. Is it possible to re-aerate now? I'm kicking myself on the butt for not remembering to aerate :headhit:
Remember that the seal on buckets leak C02 sometimes and "no bubbles" means nothing. Check by gently pushing down near the center of the cover and looking for bubble action. If you see no bubbles (or very little) when you gently push down? The C02 is leaking out. If you just barley touch the cover and you see bubbles then either you are about to start or you are not doing any fermentation and you have a good seal.

Lifting the cover to check for Krausen (or foam) is the final check. If you have no air lock bubbles and good Krausen than you just have a air leak. I have two of five beers fermenting now that I forgot to add oxygen too! I am fermenting in the no-chill cubes and when I do that I sometimes forget to Oxygenate?? Dumb, but I am not worring about it. I just have to write it in the beer log so I remember next time!
Last edited by BobBrews on 07 Aug 2014, 19:42, edited 1 time in total.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
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Post #9 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
Because I have no social life and am extremely neurotic, I've been spending time sniffing the air that comes out of the airlock. Is it possible to smell DMS from the fermentation gases? Because it really reminds me of cabbage soup...
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #10 made 11 years ago
by bundy
Glad to hear you have lift off! :thumbs:

SO now don't worry, sit back and let it do it's stuff. Give it a taste test in a couple of weeks if you want. But certainly don't get caught up on what you sniff out of the Airlock. Different yeasts will give different aromas. (I've had some that have smelled horrible)

A couple of weeks in the fermenter and a couple more in the bottle and sounds like you are going to have yourself a nice beer to enjoy! :clap:
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Post #11 made 11 years ago
by Lumpy5oh
I would suspect that the initial lack of noticeable activity would have been caused by only pitching a tube of yeast.
Those tubes are packaged with 100 billion cells which die off the longer they have been around. It is usually best practice to make a starter with the tubes to build up the cell count to around 200 billion cells (more or less depending on target gravities).
Your beer will turn out fine in the end. Your yeasties just had to work harder in the beginning.
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

Weehoosebrewing.ga
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Post #12 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
Here's a photo my friend took of me adding the secret ingredient to the kettle.
Koirapataan.jpg
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Last edited by onkeltuka on 08 Aug 2014, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #13 made 11 years ago
by PistolPatch
I can't believe you gave your dog a prostate check on top of a hot kettle. All I'm going to say is that I hope you used two fingers so as least that poor, trusting face would have at least had the benefit of a second opinion.

:dunno:

P.S. And put some shoes and warm clothes on. You live in Finland for god's sake!!! :smoke:
If you have found the above or anything else of value on BIABrewer.info, consider supporting us by getting some BIPs!
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Post #15 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
Haha, the summer's so short here that you got to cease every opportunity to put on a Hawaii shirt. Although we've just had a record breaking hot (and dry) spell here, four weeks of 29C or there abouts...
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #16 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
I'm gonna transfer the beer into a secondary in three days (I need the larger bucket for a new batch), I have 12 grams of Cascade hops left in the fridge; would it be enough to give some aroma if added in a hop sock to the secondary?
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #17 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
onkeltuka,

4 grams won't do much but if you have no other use and you want to try it? Just dump it in without the bag. You will get better extraction if loose. It won't clog anything up.
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #18 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
We transferred the beer to a secondary today. It was about eight days after the start of fermentation. There was still a thick cake of foam/ yeast on top of the beer. We tasted the stuff and it tasted really nice! Really surprisingly dry, and quite hoppy, as supposed to. There was a noticeable warmth of alcohol as well (yes!). The yeast had done really well after all, it was all over the place in big amounts. The color is quite dark, like a brown ale, but that's probably because of the half a kilo of extra malt that went in, because I read the BAIBicus wrong. There were no DMS or anything nasty that I could taste.

But really; we we're really positively surprised, me and my brewing partners. If we didn't succeed in contaminating it with something today, I bet it'll be real nice in a couple of weeks,when we plan to bottle it. We were thinking of maybe making a experiment with bottling half with ordinary table sugar, and the other half with Muscovado or some other less refined sugar.

Thanks to BIABrewer.info for getting us this far! :salute:
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #19 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
I'm sitting here and thinking why exactly am I keeping the beer in the secondary? It's been five days now, but I'm not exactly sure why I think two weeks would be a good amount to wait now? How do I know when it's ready to bottle; in a week, two or five? I'm confused (reading to many books and websites).
Last edited by onkeltuka on 21 Aug 2014, 01:30, edited 1 time in total.
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #20 made 11 years ago
by BobBrews
onkeltuka,

I don't use a secondary unless it's a fruit beer or something weird? I leave most beers in the primary 3 to 4 weeks and keg or bottle from there. I can leave the beer in the primary for 5 or 6 weeks if necessary. Sometimes when I am reusing the yeast cake. I do use a secondary because I want to get the beer fermenting quickly for a special use or party? In olden days (before BIAB) we had laws that said (one, two, three) ONE week in the primary. TWO weeks in the secondary. THREE weeks we keg or bottle. Since the advent of the renegade brewers (US) we actually tested these laws of brewing and found them to be supposition and not substantiated. :nup:
tap 1 Raspberry wine
tap 2 Bourbon Barrel Porter
tap 3 Czech Pilsner
tap 4 Triple IPA 11% ABV
Pipeline: Mulled Cider 10% ABV

http://cheesestradamus.com/ Brewers challenge!
    • SVA Brewer With Over 100 Brews From United States of America

Post #21 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
hmm... maybe I'll wait that one more week. What would be the definitive sign that a beer can be bottled? Even if the gravity isn't falling anymore, there's still stuff happening in the beer, yes? But is there a way to know for sure, or do you just try stuff out? My personality cries for definite rules!!! :argh:
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #22 made 11 years ago
by goulaigan
In my uneducated opinion, yes there is still stuff happening in the beer, stuff in suspension falling out, clearing etc., however this will still happen in the bottle.

On the other hand, if gravity is still dropping, meaning still fermenting, that will also continue in the bottle which is bad, and can be dangerous...

For me the definitive sign that a beer 'can' be bottled is having the final gravity close to what is expected for that batch with the particular yeast strain you used, and getting the same reading over a few days to be sure. Doesn't mean it has to bottled at that point though...
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Post #23 made 11 years ago
by bundy
onkeltuka wrote: What would be the definitive sign that a beer can be bottled? Even if the gravity isn't falling anymore, there's still stuff happening in the beer, yes? But is there a way to know for sure, or do you just try stuff out? My personality cries for definite rules!!! :argh:
After a while you will get a good feel for how long a Ferment takes with a particular Yeast strain. In most cases a week is pretty standard for fermentation of an Ale, whilst Lagers can take a lot longer especially if fermenting at lower temps.

Some Brewers like to leave in the fermenter for a week after ferment has finished for the Yeast to "clean up" a bit more, but that's more flavour based not so much fermentation.

So for a Rule to use for you -

A stable gravity reading for 2 - 3 days (near or at your expected FG) means fermentation has finished and it is safe to bottle.
Last edited by bundy on 21 Aug 2014, 09:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #24 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
bundy wrote: So for a Rule to use for you -

A stable gravity reading for 2 - 3 days (near or at your expected FG) means fermentation has finished and it is safe to bottle.
Rules make life easy. :thumbs:
Last edited by onkeltuka on 21 Aug 2014, 12:09, edited 1 time in total.
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus

Post #25 made 11 years ago
by onkeltuka
I got an OG-meter today! Horay! It said 1.012. Doesn't really tell anything by itself does it? The beer is still really cloudy, but the taste was a lot smoother, could have taken the dry hops easily. Last week it tasted a lot hoppier.

We'll wait a week more if the yeast should start falling even a bit more.
kuva 3.JPG
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Last edited by onkeltuka on 22 Aug 2014, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
"The rules for making hop additions during the boil are about as well defined as those for a knife fight." -Stan Hieronymus
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