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First BIAB: What a cockup

Post #1 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
Hi All,

Tried my first BIAB yesterday, and despite me doing everything humanly possible to mess it up, I think it may turn out alright. touch wood.

Bit of background about me.. I've done K&K's, Partials, etc before, so have a little bit of experience, not much. I'm NOT a perfectionist, I do a lot of reconing when I cook.. I'm also a person who learns by trial and error, and I made enough errors this time around :)


*********************
Doing a Dr. Smurno's Golden Ale
Style English Best (Special) Bitter
Original Gravity 1.047
Final Gravity 1.012
Alcohol Content 4.54%
Efficiency 70%
Total IBU (Bitterness) 36.4
EBC (colour) 15

Fermentation Details
Primary 14 days
Secondary 14 days
Conditioning 0 weeks

Ingredient List for 20L Batch

Volume/Amount Ingredient Name
2.4 kg Weyermann Pilsner
0.8 kg Weyermann Pale Wheat
0.8 kg Weyermann Munich I
0.25 kg Weyermann Caramunich I
20 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 60 mins)
15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 10 mins)
15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 5 mins)
15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 0 mins)
11.5 g DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale
0.5 tablet Whirfloc

Brewer's Notes
0 min hops are dry hops in secondary. Yeast is US56(05). Mash in 66, mash out 78. Ferment at 18C. So easy! So tasty! 31 IBU in beersmith.

********************************


The start.. mistakes before starting..

Left the recipe at work, including starting volumes. ran off memory
Didn't do a practice boil on my new home made keggle.
Didn't put volume markings on said keggle.

So, filled the keggle to approx 36l, (18 2 liter pitcher's worth, I think, I lost count) I seem to remember the recipe called for that.

Don't have a stand, so keggle is sitting directly on a 3ring burner on the concrete.

Bought it up to 68 degrees, allowing for a temperature drop when I added the grain.
Switched off burner.
Added the grain.. measured temp.. 70 degrees? WTF?
Stirred, measured temp, 71 degrees, it's going up! what the hell? I guess there must've been latent temp in the keg and/or burner+base.
Ok, it'll drop..
Stirred, cracked floating thermometer with mash paddle.. now my mash has glass, lead beads and wax in it.. (thermometer itself didn't crack)
$h!t, ok.. what's the worse that can happen? keep going.

That takes the breakage total to 2 hydrometers, and 1 thermometer.. not bad for someone who's only done 8 brews

1.5hrs mashing.. temp finally made it back to 66 around the end. (By this stage, the thermometer paper with the markings is getting quite soggy)
Lit the burner and raised it to 78 degrees and removed the grain. Oh, to light the burner, I'm lifting the keggle off the burner, lighting it, and lifting the keggle back on.

Found that my cloth hadn't been attached around the outside properly, and some of the mash (not too much thankfully) made it into the main volume.

Lift went well.. No glass, wax or lead made it into the main batch and remained in amongst the grain bed.

note to self, use gloves when squeezing so as to not burn my hands. (The chickens in the back yard enjoyed the warm malty grain leftovers)

Raised to a decent rolling boil and went to prepare hop additions. Oh, that's right, I forgot to buy scales.
The recipe called for 20g amarillo at 60, 15g at 10, 15g at 5, and 15g at 0. Not having a recipe or scales I roughly devided 80g into 4 piles of what I thought would be around 20g each, and added them at 60, 40, 20 and 5.

I don't have a hopsock so was tossing the hops directly into the liquid.

Burner off, lifted the keggle onto a bench, (heavy SOB, just about did my back) and gave it a decent swirl to generate a trub cone (finally something worked right)

When to siphon directly into my Fermenter cause I'm doing no-chill and I don't have a cube yet.
Ok, the siphon tube absolutely collapses when it has hot liquid in it.
Burned fingers again trying to get siphon started.

Got 22.5 liters into Fermenter (I have no-rinse in the airlock with cotton wool, to try to prevent infections as the air is sucked back in as the wort cools.

So, As of this morning, temp is at around 34, measured the SG, 1.042, not too bad I guess. tastes like wort..
Recipe says 1.047, but for a first attempt considering the mistakes, I'm happy..

I was planning to pitch this morning, but still too warm for US-05, hopefully it'll be cooler this evening, and I'll pitch then regardless, I want to get the yeast in asap.. (on my bench, ambient temp for fermenting has been around 24 over the last couple of weeks.) Recipe calls for 18 degrees, I'll move the fermenter downstairs, hopefully it's cooler down there..

Lessons for next time.
1. Have a recipe with me.
2. Let temp settle before adding grain.
3. Remove Thermometer before stirring.
4. Work out a better siphon.
5. Buy some scales.
6. Put some volume markings on my keggle.

Fingers crossed.. :pray:

Post #2 made 15 years ago
by hashie
First of all, welcome to BIABrewer.info and congrats on your first BIAB :D

Sounds like you had an interesting first brew experience.

I'd highly recommend using silicone tubing for siphoning hot wort, it will not collapse under the heat. Or a stainless racking cane with some silicone tubing would be even better.

Your OG, corrected for temperature, was 1046. Pretty bloody close to the mark, so well done.

I use a keggle and a 4 ring burner. I have the burner sitting on a camp bbq, similar to the one at the top of that page. It means I have enough height to siphon into my cube without taking the keggle off the burner and it means the concrete isn't going to explode from the heat.

I stop heating my water 1-2 degrees shy of my desired temp because it continues to heat after the burner is turned off. This will just be trial and error for you to see where your system needs to be. You will still have some great beer, it just might be a bit sweet.

Cheers
Last edited by hashie on 28 Feb 2011, 12:59, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #3 made 15 years ago
by stux
If you're in Australia, I would recommend the silicon hose (on special) and the auto-siphon hose tip from this page

http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/ ... p?cPath=61

Also, grab some empty fresh wort kit cubes from a good LHBS for a deposit if you can :)

Get a nice digital thermometer from a kitchen store
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #4 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
stux wrote:If you're in Australia, I would recommend the silicon hose (on special) and the auto-siphon hose tip from this page

http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... p?cPath=61

Also, grab some empty fresh wort kit cubes from a good LHBS for a deposit if you can :)

Get a nice digital thermometer from a kitchen store
Silicone hose and hose tip ordered.. thanks..
The siphoning bit was the only bit that I think that couldn't have been avoided on the day if I took more care.


Oh, I forgot to add, my nice homemade workbench under the house now has a big black ring, from where I placed the still hot keggle to do the siphon. :(
Last edited by FreeBaseBuzz on 28 Feb 2011, 14:21, edited 5 times in total.

Post #5 made 15 years ago
by BobtheBrewer
Welcome to the fray FB Buzz. I wasn't having a great day but you sure cheered me up. We all have a catastrophe every now and then but you might be lucky, I think you have had them all at once. Hang in there,
Bob

Post #6 made 15 years ago
by shibolet
Hey FBB,
welcome aboard.
do yourself a favour and watch those chickens. if they eat the grain and kick the bucket, don't drink the beer.
you may have a bit too much lead in it.

i use a analog meat thermometer that i flout on top of the mash. it's unbreakable :thumbs:
Image
i would try and under shoot the mash temp and than after mash-in, adjust the temp up carefully.
Last edited by shibolet on 28 Feb 2011, 17:44, edited 5 times in total.
Cube:
fermenter: Sourdough Spelt Ale, Classic Lambic, Oud Brune, Barrel Aged Belgian Dubbel
Kegs: Bob's Black IPA, Blanc Blond, Soda...
to be brewed:

Post #7 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
Cool, thanks.. I think it's all going to be OK. I pitched the yeast last night (US-05), wort temp 28 deg. and wrapped the fermenter in a wet towel to bring down the temp.. Woke to find a very vigorous ferment occurring (temp down to 26), with 3 INCHES of krausen on top! that's the most I've ever seen..

Post #8 made 15 years ago
by big dave
Hey FBB

I used almost the same recipe (simplified a bit) for my first one, and only a couple of days before you! Had some teething problems also, so yours made me smile!

Mine has been in the fermenter 5 days, and the hydro sample I tasted last night was marvellous. Have decided that this is almost as much fun as drinking the result.... I have popped a tap into the bottom of my keggle. Am also using an old round primus BBQ as a stand to put the burner on to do the mash and boil. Works a charm, and makes it easy to tap off the wort into the cube.

Cheers

BD
Drinking: last K&B & extract brews, BIAB #1- Golden Ale, #2- Pale Ale, #3- Galaxy Single-hop Ale
In the Pipeline: ESB, Landlord

Post #9 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
Hi Dave,
Which tap did you use? I've been considering a couple, but have concerns about the shape of the keggle near the base, I'm assuming a no-weld one is the way to go.. Could you provide a link to a product page of the one you used?

Post #10 made 15 years ago
by big dave
Hey FBB

I grabbed a brass ball-valve tap at Bunnings, with some fibre washers and a nut. I hammered a flat spot down near the bottom, drilled a hole and opened it up to the correct size with a file. You would need to be careful not to make the hole too big. Obviously.... Mostly people do prefer stainless, but brass is food-safe (as far as I know....) and is heaps cheaper. I also grabbed some tap - hose fittings and have managed to borrow some medical silicone tubing from work, and fitted that. I have taken the rubber seals out of the fittings in case of odd flavours or chemicals leaching into the boiling wort, and then used teflon tape to re-seal. No dramas at all on my one and only drain so far!

Good luck.
Drinking: last K&B & extract brews, BIAB #1- Golden Ale, #2- Pale Ale, #3- Galaxy Single-hop Ale
In the Pipeline: ESB, Landlord

Post #11 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
[I have been wanting to reply to this thread since I first saw it posted. Finally...]

What an excellent write-up of a first brew. Loved it Buzz - laughed the whole way through :thumbs:. Make sure you read this post. You'll love it!

I'm not sure if I can reply seriously here because every time I start re-reading your post I start belly-laughing at your total self-deprecation. Truly excellent! Displays of quality humour like this tell me that you have probably already answered most questions yourself and are simply trying to help others avoid those pitfalls :peace:.

I see that the guys here have got you sorted on the hose and I am sure you will be fine with everything else on your next brew. The only thing I can offer is a warning on radiated heat. Some set-ups will continue to add heat to the mash after you turn the burner off :o. Mine does this a bit. Make sure you give your 'strike' water a good stir before you measure its temperature. If it is too high, don't wait for it to cool as it takes ages in high ambient temperatures. Bail a few litres out and add some cold water.

If you add heat during the mash, stop your burner earlier rather than later, agitate the mash and see if the temp still rises before you decide to add more heat. These things take a few brews to get used to.

US-O5 is a very friendly yeast so I think all is going to be great. Congratulations on your first brew and thanks a heap for the excellent belly laugh. Going to have one more read now :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by PistolPatch on 01 Mar 2011, 20:31, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #12 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
PistolPatch wrote:The only thing I can offer is a warning on radiated heat. Some set-ups will continue to add heat to the mash after you turn the burner off
Hi Pistol :shoot: , and thanks for the support..

I honestly didn't expect a perfect brew first go, and am the kind of person that embraces mistakes. It is seriously the only way I learn.

(to be honest, I kinda think I have this self-defeating martyr attitude that causes me to sub-consiously, on purpose make a few mistakes so I don't have an excuse to make them a second time)

Next time I'll be stopping the burner 2 deg lower than strike temp and watch and wait..

I checked the brew this morning, and I think it's infected. There is a slight sour spell coming from the airlock, and I believe it's from trying to no-chill in the fermenter. I did put cotton wool and starsan in the airlock to try to sanitise the air that was sucked back in as the fermenter cooled.. The other possibility is that its being caused by the excessively high ferment temps. 24-26 deg is as low as I've been able to get it, and I'm meant to be fermenting at 18 with US-05.
Last edited by FreeBaseBuzz on 03 Mar 2011, 09:17, edited 5 times in total.

Post #13 made 15 years ago
by hashie
Don't stress FBB, let it ferment out plus a few days for the yeast to clean up after itself and then check to see how it tastes.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."

Post #14 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
hashie wrote:Don't stress FBB, let it ferment out plus a few days for the yeast to clean up after itself and then check to see how it tastes.
Last time I detected this sourness in the aroma, the brew turned out puss. Only just drinkable, and only if I picture white wine as I drink it.. :nup:
Last edited by FreeBaseBuzz on 03 Mar 2011, 14:12, edited 5 times in total.

Post #15 made 15 years ago
by stux
FreeBaseBuzz wrote:
hashie wrote:Don't stress FBB, let it ferment out plus a few days for the yeast to clean up after itself and then check to see how it tastes.
Last time I detected this sourness in the aroma, the brew turned out puss. Only just drinkable, and only if I picture white wine as I drink it.. :nup:
If its infected, and if you've had this problem before, then you need to work on your sanitation practises
Last edited by stux on 03 Mar 2011, 14:47, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #16 made 15 years ago
by PistolPatch
FreeBaseBuzz wrote:
PistolPatch wrote:The only thing I can offer is a warning on radiated heat. Some set-ups will continue to add heat to the mash after you turn the burner off
Hi Pistol :shoot: , and thanks for the support..

I honestly didn't expect a perfect brew first go, and am the kind of person that embraces mistakes. It is seriously the only way I learn.

(to be honest, I kinda think I have this self-defeating martyr attitude that causes me to sub-consiously, on purpose make a few mistakes so I don't have an excuse to make them a second time)

Next time I'll be stopping the burner 2 deg lower than strike temp and watch and wait..

I checked the brew this morning, and I think it's infected. There is a slight sour spell coming from the airlock, and I believe it's from trying to no-chill in the fermenter. I did put cotton wool and starsan in the airlock to try to sanitise the air that was sucked back in as the fermenter cooled.. The other possibility is that its being caused by the excessively high ferment temps. 24-26 deg is as low as I've been able to get it, and I'm meant to be fermenting at 18 with US-05.
LOL on the :shoot: :lol:

Really enjoyed your read above. Let this brew ride unless it becomes obvious that it is a dud. Make sure you post again when you get to have a taste or do establish it is a dud. (If you are suspicious but not dismissive of this brew, try bottling it rather than kegging it so you don't contaminate your whole system and can isolate the problem easier.) US-05 can handle a heap of abuse so all might turn out okay.

Let's see what happens eh?
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Mar 2011, 22:35, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #17 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
Ok, so I bottled that batch on Saturday, and I still think it's infected but not too badly, so ti could be drinkable.. I tasted it b4 bottling and it has a tinge of sourness, but I think that may mellow with conditioning. We shall see in a couple of weeks.

I cleaned the fermenter and let it sit overnight with the cleaner in it.. then put a K&K little creatures pale ale clone in it yesterday afteroon. Then last night, I had a revelation. I think I know where the infection is coming from.. I remember seeing at the bottom of the fermenter a small deep kinda divot thing from the manufacturing process, that looked quite dark. For some reason it just didn't occur to me when I was cleaning it, to clean that particular bit, god knows why..

Pistol, you assume I've had the cash to afford kegs.. I wish.. one day, not just yet. Maybe when I perfect cleanliness and start getting concistant brews, I'll invest in kegs.

Post #18 made 15 years ago
by stux
Maybe when I perfect cleanliness and start getting concistant brews, I'll invest in kegs.
I think that seems like a good idea :)

Most important thing is sanitation, then temperature control

kegging is a convenience thing, and I wouldn't brew without... which I *know*, i've always tossed the hobby when I had to bottle... too many brews sat for too long waiting for me to find time to clean bottles

Kegging makes it so I have the time to "bottle", but I can afford a kegging system, in the past I couldn't.

You need to get your sanitation practises pretty close to perfect, then I'd suggest temperature control is the next most important thing. That does depend on where you are, as if you're in Far North Queensland your temperature control requirements will be different to if you're in northern north america ;)
Last edited by stux on 14 Mar 2011, 11:16, edited 5 times in total.
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #19 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
I thought my sanitation was pretty damn good, and to be honest, I think the fermenter has a manufacturing flaw, looks a little like a small popped air-bubble in the floor of the container.

One trick I found with the bottles, is I rinse after drinking, and leave them with the dirty dishes. Then when I do my dishes, (once or twice a week, I live by myself) I do the bottles first.. Leaving them too long results in a fairly quick mess developing in the kitchen.

Post #20 made 15 years ago
by stux
My 60L fermenter had quite a few... blemishes... in it, there actually seems to be bits of dirt or dark plastic embedded in the plastic.

One of these was inside, I scraped it with a sharp knife to remove the black bit, and then did as best a job as I could to smooth it out... being careful the whole time to not make the wall too thin!!!

Not too happy at the time, but its seems good.

Still, Ambient of 24C means you'll end up with a primary phase of about 26C, which is far too high for clean flavours in my experience. Yeast heats up the wort by about 1-2C in the vigorous part of fermentation
Fermenting: -
Cubed: -
Stirplate: -
On Tap: NS Summer Ale III (WY1272), Landlord III (WY1469), Fighter's 70/- II (WY1272), Roast Porter (WY1028), Cider, Soda
Next: Munich Helles III

5/7/12

Post #21 made 15 years ago
by FreeBaseBuzz
Well, I tried the beer after 3 of weeks bottle conditioning and well, damn, It came out REALLY nice.. A very slight sourness that I still think was from an infection, but wow, this stuff is definately quaffable. My housemate says it's as good as any golden ale he's tried before, and he has a fair palate..

Is totally transparent before going into the fridge, but comes out with a chill haze. Oh, and I can poor the whole bottle into the glass, the sediment seems really solid and doesn't disturb during the pour as far as I've noticed.

I'll definatley be doing another AG soon. The process can only improve from here :) Oh, and I have a DIGITAL thermometer now..

Post #22 made 15 years ago
by hashie
Good on you freebase, sounds like a positive experience, with good beer to enjoy.

This is a very forgiving hobby. Beers don't always come out to a style, ingredients are forgotten, temperatures missed, but unless you fill your fermenter with fresh wort without, at least, hosing it out first, the beer will almost always be good.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
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