Just finished cleaning and mopping-up after my first go at a BIAB, I followed the recipe for a mini Amarillo APA, aiming for about 10.5L into the feremnter.
My previous brewing history is one kit (wherry) and two 20ish L extract brews.
The quantites I used for my set up were:
2012g Pale Malt
406g Munich
206g CaraAmber
2624g total.
This was dropped into a total water volume of 18.14L (not sure how I got to that figure now, but never mind!)
I was using a Ritchie's Mash/Sparge bag in a Ritchie's boiler.
I brought the water upto temperature, first thing I noticed was a huge discrepancy (about 10 degrees c!) between my digital thermometer and the traditional glass thermometer, so I went with the glass thermometer assuming that would be the most accurate. Once the water was upto 68C I popped the bag in and then stirred in the grain. Checked the temperature and applied a little heat. All seemed good so left it for a few mins. When I came back I had pockets where the temp was upwards 70C and other areas were less than 65C so gave it a good stir but found it took a while to stabilise.
Will the higher temperatures cause problems?
After a 90min mash I removed the bag and went for the boil, but I took a sample and the SG at this stage was only about 1035 (corrected for temperature), would the unstable temperatures cause this or is it more likely the bag? I don't have a straight sided boiler so didn't make a note of the pre-boil volume.
Anyway, the boil, hop additions went ok, cooled and chucked into FV, a little more than 10L so that was good, but the SG now was only 1044, so somewhere I've lost about 6 or 7 points compared to the guide. Also a little bit worried about the amount of muck that went into the FV but reading other posts this doesn't seem to affect the final product.
Now it's tucked up with the yeast doing its stuff. Hoping the finished beer will be ok, if a little light on alcohol.
Will try another next year!
Cheers for the technique, guide and the recipe. All your hard work on this forum is much appreciated in this little part of the snow-covered UK!
Oz
Post #2 made 15 years ago
Well done on your first AG BIAB Oz.
It sounds to me like you had a pretty successful day. Don't get too hooked up on numbers, until you have 1/2 a dozen brews under your belt you wont know what or how your system works. The numbers are just a guide.
Having pockets of higher temperatures wont affect your finished beer. When you think about it, some of the mash was high, some was low, so it should balance out in the end.
I'm sure it will be a ripper when it's ready.
Cheers
It sounds to me like you had a pretty successful day. Don't get too hooked up on numbers, until you have 1/2 a dozen brews under your belt you wont know what or how your system works. The numbers are just a guide.
Having pockets of higher temperatures wont affect your finished beer. When you think about it, some of the mash was high, some was low, so it should balance out in the end.
I'm sure it will be a ripper when it's ready.
Cheers
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #3 made 15 years ago
Thanks for the reply and the reassurance.
Problem is I have a maths background so the numbers are everything to me!!
Problem is I have a maths background so the numbers are everything to me!!
Post #4 made 15 years ago
I fully understand where you are coming from, my background is Engineering, but honestly, you just need to let it go.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #5 made 15 years ago
Good on you Oz, it can only get better. I did my 5th BIAB today and fortunately realised why I had been a bit low on my pre/post boil SG's before I bought the grain for this one. I had been using the grain weights that I put into the calculator instead of the "scaled recipe" weights in the grain bill section. Duh!
Post #6 made 15 years ago
I saw your post the other day oz but didn't get time, until now, to say that I am impressed 
.
Doing your first all-grain, in such a small volume and making such detailed observations are to be congratulated.
I am just reading through your post, trying to get a better idea of your situation but I can't even seem to be able to google any worthwhile info on what a Ritchie's boiler or bag is. Can you link or post some pics?
Next thing I read is that you went for the glass thermometer. Good decision! See if you can verify your thermometers with some others before your next mash as even glass ones can be dodgy.
You say, "When I came back I had pockets where the temp was upwards of 70C and other areas were less than 65 C..." This temperature difference is totally normal and is a lot less than you will get in a traditional mash tun where the pockets will often vary by 3-6 C *. The higher temperature will not cause problems.
There are many factors going on heat-wise in a traditional mash-tun as well as a BIAB one. In BIAB, a solid pot will continue to add heat to the mash after you turn your flame off. A thin pot will not. These are things you learn about your equipment as you go on but they are nothing to worry about.
Take heed and solace from brewers such as hashie, Beachbum and, in fact, any traditional brewer without a pump as they don't even stir their mash. These guys produce great beer and have medals to prove it. Guys like you and me, worry about maintaining an even mash temperature. BIABrewers who want to maintain a consistent temperature can do so easily by the occassional stir and application of heat. Traditional brewers can do this also by adding a recirculating pump with an element.
What we, "fastidious maintainers of temperature," don't consider is that a mash that has pockets of varying temperatures might even produce a beer that is better than a mash that is maintained at a uniform temperature. I suspect that the latter might actually be correct and I intend to try it out but it will take many side by side brews to see if there is actually a difference.
What you do need to do though is work out for sure which one of your thermometers is correct at mash temps before you brew again because a ten degree difference on your average mash temp can make a difference.
You also did a mini-BIAB so, with the smaller volumes, errors are exaggerated or, like Bob, you suddenly discover something you have missed
.
If you are worried about your figures, before you do your next brew, post your recipe and equipment up to this thread and we'll try and narrow things down a bit there.
I think you have done a great job so,
PP
[*Edit: Changed my original figure to something a bit more realistic. The original figure I posted was a bit extreme
]
.Doing your first all-grain, in such a small volume and making such detailed observations are to be congratulated.
I am just reading through your post, trying to get a better idea of your situation but I can't even seem to be able to google any worthwhile info on what a Ritchie's boiler or bag is. Can you link or post some pics?
Next thing I read is that you went for the glass thermometer. Good decision! See if you can verify your thermometers with some others before your next mash as even glass ones can be dodgy.
You say, "When I came back I had pockets where the temp was upwards of 70C and other areas were less than 65 C..." This temperature difference is totally normal and is a lot less than you will get in a traditional mash tun where the pockets will often vary by 3-6 C *. The higher temperature will not cause problems.
There are many factors going on heat-wise in a traditional mash-tun as well as a BIAB one. In BIAB, a solid pot will continue to add heat to the mash after you turn your flame off. A thin pot will not. These are things you learn about your equipment as you go on but they are nothing to worry about.
Take heed and solace from brewers such as hashie, Beachbum and, in fact, any traditional brewer without a pump as they don't even stir their mash. These guys produce great beer and have medals to prove it. Guys like you and me, worry about maintaining an even mash temperature. BIABrewers who want to maintain a consistent temperature can do so easily by the occassional stir and application of heat. Traditional brewers can do this also by adding a recirculating pump with an element.
What we, "fastidious maintainers of temperature," don't consider is that a mash that has pockets of varying temperatures might even produce a beer that is better than a mash that is maintained at a uniform temperature. I suspect that the latter might actually be correct and I intend to try it out but it will take many side by side brews to see if there is actually a difference.
What you do need to do though is work out for sure which one of your thermometers is correct at mash temps before you brew again because a ten degree difference on your average mash temp can make a difference.
You also did a mini-BIAB so, with the smaller volumes, errors are exaggerated or, like Bob, you suddenly discover something you have missed
.If you are worried about your figures, before you do your next brew, post your recipe and equipment up to this thread and we'll try and narrow things down a bit there.
I think you have done a great job so
,PP
[*Edit: Changed my original figure to something a bit more realistic. The original figure I posted was a bit extreme
]
Last edited by PistolPatch on 28 Dec 2010, 23:47, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #7 made 15 years ago
Thanks for the interest and feedback chaps, it's all appreciated!
I'll try to get some photos of the stuff that I am using, in the meantime here is a similar bag http://www.homebrewcentre.co.uk/product ... 56&cID=182. These are designed so the wort filters out of the bottom and not the sides.
The boiler is similar to one of these http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... oiler.html.
I'll be getting another glass thermometer and hope that it agrees with the one that I used for the brew!
Checked the gravity yesterday and it was down to 1014 but looking cloudy. Tasted okay, plenty of hops evident. Researching US05 I see that it will go below 1010, my plan is to leave it until saturday and if it's 1010 or below pop it outside to cool (this seems to be a technique used with 05 to get the yeast to drop) before racking off and bottling.
Thanks all!
I'll try to get some photos of the stuff that I am using, in the meantime here is a similar bag http://www.homebrewcentre.co.uk/product ... 56&cID=182. These are designed so the wort filters out of the bottom and not the sides.
The boiler is similar to one of these http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... oiler.html.
I'll be getting another glass thermometer and hope that it agrees with the one that I used for the brew!
Checked the gravity yesterday and it was down to 1014 but looking cloudy. Tasted okay, plenty of hops evident. Researching US05 I see that it will go below 1010, my plan is to leave it until saturday and if it's 1010 or below pop it outside to cool (this seems to be a technique used with 05 to get the yeast to drop) before racking off and bottling.
Thanks all!
Post #8 made 15 years ago
Good post PP.PistolPatch wrote:I saw your post the other day oz but didn't get time, until now, to say that I am impressed
Doing your first all-grain, in such a small volume and making such detailed observations are to be congratulated.
I am just reading through your post, trying to get a better idea of your situation but I can't even seem to be able to google any worthwhile info on what a Ritchie's boiler or bag is. Can you link or post some pics?
Next thing I read is that you went for the glass thermometer. Good decision! See if you can verify your thermometers with some others before your next mash as even glass ones can be dodgy.
You say, "When I came back I had pockets where the temp was upwards of 70C and other areas were less than 65 C..." This temperature difference is totally normal and is a lot less than you will get in a traditional mash tun where the pockets will often vary by 3 - 6 C *. THe higher temperature will not cause problems.
There are many factors going on heat-wise in a traditional mash-tun as well as a BIAB one. In BIAB, a solid pot will continue to add heat to the mash after you turn your flame off. A thin pot will not. These are things you learn about your equipment as you go on but they are nothing to worry about.
Take heed and solace from brewers such as hashie, Beachbum and, in fact, any traditional brewer without a pump as they don't even stir their mash. These guys produce great beer and have medals to prove it. Guys like you and me, worry about maintaining an even mash temperature. BIABrewers who want to maintain a consistent temperature can do so easily by the occassional stir and application of heat. Traditional brewers can do this also by adding a recirculating pump with an element.
What we, "fastidious maintainers of temperature," don't consider is that a mash that has pockets of varying temperatures might even produce a beer that is better than a mash that is maintained at a uniform temperature. I suspect that the latter might actually be correct and I intend to try it out but it will take many side by side brews to see if there is actually a difference.
What you do need to do though is work out for sure which one of your thermometers is correct at mash temps before you brew again because a ten degree difference on your average mash temp can make a difference.
You also did a mini-BIAB so, with the smaller volumes, errors are exaggerated or, like Bob, you suddenly discover something you have missed
If you are worried about your figures, before you do your next brew, post your recipe and equipment up to this thread and we'll try and narrow things down a bit there.
I think you have done a great job so
PP
[*Edit: Changed my original figure to something a bit more realistic. The original figure I posted was a bit extreme]
Just on maintaining mash temps, the reason I leave my mash un-disturbed for the entire 90 minutes is because I get a much steadier temperature. Or to put it another way my temperatures are much more stable, by lagging my kettle and leaving it be.
On another note (and to push my barrow) my efficiencies into boiler are consistently around 83-84% using this method.
Last edited by hashie on 29 Dec 2010, 05:00, edited 5 times in total.
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
Post #9 made 15 years ago
I've attached pics of my boiler and bag.
I hope you can see enough to get the general idea!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by oz11 on 29 Dec 2010, 21:09, edited 5 times in total.
Post #10 made 15 years ago
Ahhh! Finally found this thread! So sorry I haven't replied earlier oz. I noticed your pics above and kept meaning to comment but had no time. Tonight I have worked my way backwards and finally found your pics 
.
Okay, what I wanted to say was that your bag seems to be of two distinct porosities. The sides of your bag appear to be the right porosity for BIAB but the bottom appears to be way too coarse.
I have never seen a BIAB done with such a coarse mesh as what I am seeing makes up the bottom of your bag but, who knows, it might be okay?
It does worry me a lot though and I am sorry it has taken me so long to comment on it.
What I think is that with such a coarse bag, you will get way too much "silt" etc in your kettle and this could lead to unpredictable results. So, see how this beer comes out but also maybe consider a finer???
PP
.Okay, what I wanted to say was that your bag seems to be of two distinct porosities. The sides of your bag appear to be the right porosity for BIAB but the bottom appears to be way too coarse.
I have never seen a BIAB done with such a coarse mesh as what I am seeing makes up the bottom of your bag but, who knows, it might be okay?
It does worry me a lot though and I am sorry it has taken me so long to comment on it.
What I think is that with such a coarse bag, you will get way too much "silt" etc in your kettle and this could lead to unpredictable results. So, see how this beer comes out but also maybe consider a finer???
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 04 Jan 2011, 21:43, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #11 made 15 years ago
I did wonder about the coarseness myself but as it is designed to be a "mashing and sparging bag" thought it must be ok. After the boil I use an immersion chiller and then allow 20 mins for the hops to form a layer over the hop filter and drain through that, so I hope that has kept most of bits out.
Bottled the beer at the weekend and managed to get 18 500ml bottles out of it so not far short of what I hoped. Will leave it a while and report back after the first taste.
Thanks
Bottled the beer at the weekend and managed to get 18 500ml bottles out of it so not far short of what I hoped. Will leave it a while and report back after the first taste.
Thanks
Post #12 made 15 years ago
Have just had a look at what's in the bottles and seems to clearing quite nicely, but...I can see little bubbles on the surface and rising from the bottom which I have not seen in my earlier bottlings. Is this a sign of too vigourous fermentation and should I worry? It's present in each bottle so I think that rules out capping problems. 
Post #13 made 15 years ago
Embarrassingly, I seem to have forgotten what little I knew about bottling. Sorry oz. I keep meaning to do a few bottles on each brew (a very sound practice even if you keg) but never seem to get around to it. If you don't get an answer here soon and the problem (if it is one) persists, I'd definitely start a new thread.
As for the bag, I assume you are using hop plugs or flowers? I can see these grabbing up most of the silt as they are great for that. I imagine that pellets would cause a bit of a problem though??? What I am wondering is if your bag is okay only on the proviso that you only use plugs or flowers and that you are using a kettle tap/spigot rather than a syphon?
Do these questions make sense or seem valid Oz?
PP
As for the bag, I assume you are using hop plugs or flowers? I can see these grabbing up most of the silt as they are great for that. I imagine that pellets would cause a bit of a problem though??? What I am wondering is if your bag is okay only on the proviso that you only use plugs or flowers and that you are using a kettle tap/spigot rather than a syphon?
Do these questions make sense or seem valid Oz?
PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 05 Jan 2011, 21:39, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #14 made 15 years ago
Yes hop flowers it is and will continue to be, and then drained through these and through a tap. So as long as I don't switch to pellets (not likely) or syphoning (not likely) I should be ok!
Armed with this info I am thinking about the next brew. I think I will try a dry stout. The reasoning?
The first extract brew I did was a dry stout which is drinking pretty damn well at the moment, so I will try to scale the recipe down for a 10L brew length. Replace the DME with grain, use black/choc malt in the same proportions and hops and do a side by side comparisom.
Armed with this info I am thinking about the next brew. I think I will try a dry stout. The reasoning?
The first extract brew I did was a dry stout which is drinking pretty damn well at the moment, so I will try to scale the recipe down for a 10L brew length. Replace the DME with grain, use black/choc malt in the same proportions and hops and do a side by side comparisom.
Post #15 made 15 years ago
Ah, all is looking good then .
I enjoy a stout but, in this climate will only have an occasional one - always brewed by someone else
. I do really enjoy a Schwartzbier though and seem to be able to have a few of these any time of year 
. Make sure you brew one at some stage.
Tasting two beers of a similiar recipe is always worthwhile so I think you have made a great decision oz and will look forward to reading about your comparison .
.I enjoy a stout but, in this climate will only have an occasional one - always brewed by someone else
. I do really enjoy a Schwartzbier though and seem to be able to have a few of these any time of year . Make sure you brew one at some stage.Tasting two beers of a similiar recipe is always worthwhile so I think you have made a great decision oz and will look forward to reading about your comparison
.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Jan 2011, 19:43, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #16 made 15 years ago
Hi oz11oz11 wrote:I did wonder about the coarseness myself but as it is designed to be a "mashing and sparging bag" thought it must be ok. After the boil I use an immersion chiller and then allow 20 mins for the hops to form a layer over the hop filter and drain through that, so I hope that has kept most of bits out.
Get yourself a nice big piece of voile to use as a bag. It's brilliant. I also use it to filter the wort as I tip it into my fermenter and it takes out all of the break material
Mine cost about £2 from our local market, best £2 I've ever spent
Cheers Tom
Last edited by soupdragon on 08 Jan 2011, 20:07, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #17 made 15 years ago
Hi Tom
I will probably persevere with the bag I have for the next one, then try some voile for a comparison. I've been following your threads on here and the uk home brew forum with great interest over the last few weeks, and I'm pleased your brew is looking good...well done!
PP,
As I said on my latest thread I am going to do a BIAB version of a best bitter I brewed in November, most of which got drunk over Christmas except for a couple of bottles I put aside. I've still got about 20 bottles of stout from last year so I really don't need another 20 bottles of the stuff right now!
The schwarzbier you mention I find intriguing. Would it be similar to a dark lager such as Budweiser Budvar dark? (Or whatever they have to call it over in Australia). I realise it's a different country of origin but if it's anyway similar then I am very much interested!
Cheers guys.
I will probably persevere with the bag I have for the next one, then try some voile for a comparison. I've been following your threads on here and the uk home brew forum with great interest over the last few weeks, and I'm pleased your brew is looking good...well done!
PP,
As I said on my latest thread I am going to do a BIAB version of a best bitter I brewed in November, most of which got drunk over Christmas except for a couple of bottles I put aside. I've still got about 20 bottles of stout from last year so I really don't need another 20 bottles of the stuff right now!
The schwarzbier you mention I find intriguing. Would it be similar to a dark lager such as Budweiser Budvar dark? (Or whatever they have to call it over in Australia). I realise it's a different country of origin but if it's anyway similar then I am very much interested!
Cheers guys.
Post #18 made 15 years ago
I must say it's a hell of a relief to finally brew a beer that tastes like BEER. It was so frustratingoz11 wrote:Hi Tom
I will probably persevere with the bag I have for the next one, then try some voile for a comparison. I've been following your threads on here and the uk home brew forum with great interest over the last few weeks, and I'm pleased your brew is looking good...well done!
Cant wait to crack on with my next one
Cheers Tom
Last edited by soupdragon on 08 Jan 2011, 22:22, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #19 made 15 years ago
Didn't have any patience to wait any longer for a taste so just grabbed a bottle of this from cold storage, i.e. the garage (winter here in England).
It has only been just over a week in the bottle, moved from the warm of the house out to the garage yesterday.
Initial notes:-
It's a wonderful golden colour, slightly hazy, possibly chill-haze, but otherwise nicely clear. No floaty bits and the us05 was nicely packed at the bottom of the bottle and remained there.
Nice aroma, hoppy, citrusy but not over powering.
Good flavour, lovely smack of citrusy hops and a good bitter flourish on the finish.
Amarillo hops are new to me, not quite cascade but similar enough to please the missus
Would I pay for this in a pub? yes. would I go back and buy another? Oh yes!
I'm hooked!
Great forum, very helpful, couldn't have done it without the instructions and help here. I'm extremely grateful and keep up the good work. I'm not sure whose recipe the amarillo beer is but great stuff and thanks to whoever came up with it.
Oz
It has only been just over a week in the bottle, moved from the warm of the house out to the garage yesterday.
Initial notes:-
It's a wonderful golden colour, slightly hazy, possibly chill-haze, but otherwise nicely clear. No floaty bits and the us05 was nicely packed at the bottom of the bottle and remained there.
Nice aroma, hoppy, citrusy but not over powering.
Good flavour, lovely smack of citrusy hops and a good bitter flourish on the finish.
Amarillo hops are new to me, not quite cascade but similar enough to please the missus
Would I pay for this in a pub? yes. would I go back and buy another? Oh yes!
I'm hooked!
Great forum, very helpful, couldn't have done it without the instructions and help here. I'm extremely grateful and keep up the good work. I'm not sure whose recipe the amarillo beer is but great stuff and thanks to whoever came up with it.
Oz
Post #20 made 15 years ago
Sorry Oz, I'm not good at keeping track of too many threadsoz11 wrote:PP,
As I said on my latest thread I am going to do a BIAB version of a best bitter I brewed in November...
. I am now up to date on your posts/threads so what made you decide to brew the best bitter (in your other thread) instead of the stout you were thinking on above? (See, I am now up to date with your posts. Well, I think I am .)Great to see Tom's post above and it sounds like you have had the same experience Oz
.The original recipe can be found here. It is a very nice beer and one that seems to please a huge range of palates. It is the recipe that I brew most and I am always amazed at how many people love it as much as I do. BIABrewer recipe for this beer can be found here.oz11 wrote:I'm not sure whose recipe the amarillo beer is but great stuff and thanks to whoever came up with it.
Cheers,
Patch
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Jan 2011, 21:53, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #21 made 15 years ago
I'm going for a bitter on the next brew because I still have 20ish bottles of stout to get through, I also have a 5L mini keg of the stuff. I only have a couple bottles of bitter left from an extract brew I did so I'll try something similar using BIAB and then I'll have more variety to choose from when drinking.
That is my thinking anyway, may all change again in a day or two
Thanks for the recipe links, I am now better informed
That is my thinking anyway, may all change again in a day or two
Thanks for the recipe links, I am now better informed
Post #22 made 15 years ago
So, today's Sunday. If you drink three stouts a day for the next seven days, you will have nothing left by next Sundayoz11 wrote:I'm going for a bitter on the next brew because I still have 20ish bottles of stout to get through...
. Maybe take tomorrow off work to brew a Schwartz-bier. Brewed as an ale with US-56 at about 18C, this recipe, with a tad of filtering* and kegging can drink very well within 10 days of mashing. This would leave you with only three days on the wagon .*I never do this anymore as now have the set-up to have a few beers on the go and treat them properly. But, when my space and equipment was a bit more limited, I often brewed the schwartz in a rush and it was always a great beer.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Jan 2011, 23:20, edited 6 times in total.
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Post #23 made 15 years ago
Sorry Oz, I missed this question. Schwartz is a dark lager. I have never had a Budvar Dark. A schwartz though should not be, 'one-dimensional.' Many commercial, 'dark lagers," are. The schwartz recipe I linked above is very easy and, when you brew it, you should be able to taste it and say, "Wow! I can taste this and I can taste that." Or, you can just drink it with great pleasure. Experts may be able to taste a significant grain complexity in a lager. I can't. But with this beer I can.oz11 wrote: The schwarzbier you mention I find intriguing. Would it be similar to a dark lager such as Budweiser Budvar dark?
hashie wrote here a while back that the complexity further improves by holding back the steeping grains. I haven't tried this yet but will do on my next batch.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 09 Jan 2011, 23:36, edited 5 times in total.
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Post #24 made 15 years ago
Thanks for the plug PP.
I hold back the steeping grains and add them in at mashout. I do this with all my beers, it improves the complexity of the beer as PP has said.
Basically means you can taste the various grains instead of them becoming homogeneous.
Schwartzbier brewed as an ale is a top beer
I hold back the steeping grains and add them in at mashout. I do this with all my beers, it improves the complexity of the beer as PP has said.
Basically means you can taste the various grains instead of them becoming homogeneous.
Schwartzbier brewed as an ale is a top beer
"It's beer Jim, but not as we know it."
