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Good News - I figured out this 90 minute mash thing !

Post #1 made 10 years ago
by soccerdad
Like everyone else, when I first started brewing - and researching all grain brewing I had 60 minutes etched into my stone tablets, just like old Moses himself. 60 minute mash - 60 minute boil - with very few variations and those mostly on the boil side .. boil pilsner for 90, etc.

So my research gets me to this crazy place called biabrewing and these nut jobs are talking about a 90 minute mash - they must be crazy! Maybe it's a typo. Meantime I am mashing for 60 (like it says in the old testament) and struggling to get my numbers, but getting close enough. Good enough for who it's for, right?

Mostly I was impatient .. I wanted to get moving .. I had put the grains in at the right temp, stirred well, waited 20 minutes, checked temp, stirred again, adjusted temp, waited another 20, twiddled my thumbs, balanced the checkbook, took out the trash, stirred again, adjusted temp again ---- For Crying Out Loud, Can we just start the boil already ????

So Saturday I get everything going on the 20 minute schedule .. hoping for a pre-boil gravity of 1055. I stir at 20, and I've got 1042, at 40 minutes I'm at 1047, at 60 minutes I only add 3 to get 1050 :angry: I'm getting impatient, but Donna is more so .. "I need this stuff at the grocery store," she says for the 3rd time and I acquiesce. I forget the mash and go for groceries. I'm back prox 30 minutes later having not even thought about the beer - and I'm at 1056 :party:

So from now on I'm making the grocery list before I start the brew day. I'll baby the mash for 60 minutes and then just leave. As long as I can find my way home, I will probably have my numbers when I get back.
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Post #2 made 10 years ago
by goulaigan
Yip, I started here after extract so have always done the 90 mins stuff and I don't think I have ever undershot gravity, or if so maybe only by a point or 2. Did you do a mashout? Usually good for a couple extra points as well...
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
by soccerdad
When I was Mister Impatient and struggling to get what I need at 60 I would do a mash out (which essentially meant the grains were wet for another 15 to 20 min :) But Saturday I was happy at 1056 after 90 (plus) and pulled the bag.
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
This is one of the last tabs I have open tonight. It's a good thread and there are many relevant links on this site that, if any members have time, I would love to see added here as it is one of the many areas where we are trying to consolidate info.

....

Here's a little more info :.

On some grain bills, there will be a smaller diff between a 60 and 90 min simultaneous mash/sparge. In other words, a few base malts, under certain circumstances, can convert very quickly. That is rare though.

In nearly all circumstances it is significantly better to go for 90 minutes using a normal crush, especially with a simultaneous mash and sparge which is what pure BIAB is.
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Good News - I figured out this 90 minute mash thing !

Post #5 made 10 years ago
by Contrarian
Nothing wrong with long mash times in certain circumstances. I have kids and often there's a long gap between mash in and when I can get the boil going, sometimes 3 hours or more.

The long mash seems to work well if you are aiming for a high gravity beer but would like a drier finish. For example a russian imperial stout that started at 1.080 finished at 1.012, I was expecting more like 1.020. Also good for IPAs I you like a dry finish.

There's always time to fit other activities in during brewing that can add to its appeal. Look honey, I'm making beer and mowing the lawn at the same time! Etc.

There's lots of threads on it but one of the key reasons for a 90 minute mash for BIAB is that there is no sparge process. When 3V brewing the mash might be 60 minutes but brewers will often sparge over an additional 30-90 minutes, depending on how slow they go and there seems to be good evidence around a slow sparge and thus a longer mash for BIAB.

Post #6 made 10 years ago
by stm
Just leave the f***ing mash alone for the 90 minutes, already! (Use a sleeping bag or similar to maintain the mash temp.)
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
by PistolPatch
:lol: stm.

I'm going to agree with you and disagree with you a little here. Yes, do the 90 minute mash but no on just leaving it without checking it for 90 minutes until you know how your equipment works.

There are many different types of BIAB set-ups (gas/electric, thick wall kettles, thin wall kettles, both small and large, icy cold ambient to 38 C / 100 F, indoor stove to windy outdoors etc, etc, etc.) but it's tempting to think that everyone is in the same circumstance as we are. For example, a lot of rigs, you can't wrap a sleeping bag around - it would get burnt immediately. Also, not checking temps in a thick walled kettle can easily lead to over-heating of a mash and vice versa.

My advice for a beginner, and with my set-up, I still do this because, on my set-up, this is easiest, agitate the mash and check it's temperature at say 10, 25, 45, and 80 mins. Agitating the mash ensures no inefficiency problems and checking the temperature avoids temp-dependent problems. Once you know well how your system works, then you can explore being lazy in certain areas or a lot of areas. However, your lazy area might actually be a critical one for another brewer if that makes sense.

:peace:
PP
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Post #9 made 10 years ago
by goulaigan
That question depends on a lot of variables, some recipes are more forgiving than others, some peoples taste are more scrutinizing then others, hotter mash makes generally sweeter maltier beer, cooler mash makes dryer more attenuable beer (if attenuable is a word? attenuatable? maybe just 'easier for yeast to eat'). So those things all combined will have a combined effect on the finished product. Personally I like to keep it within a degree or 2 Celsius, but I'm picky...
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
by Primavera
stm wrote:Just leave the f***ing mash alone for the 90 minutes, already! (Use a sleeping bag or similar to maintain the mash temp.)
That's what I did with my last batch.

Previously, I would over / undershoot my target temperature and was constantly fiddling. This time, wrapped the kettle with an old quilt, covered it with a heavy duty garbage bag and left it for 90 minutes. Went from 149°F to 147°F.

Hit all my numbers and the fermentation is going according to plan.

It is tempting to want to "do something". I'll just find something else to do for an hour and a half.
Last edited by Primavera on 12 Jun 2015, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.
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