I was lucky enough to get a holiday job at a local homebrew supply store this season. The owner had just opened up a brew-on-premise, allowing people to brew beer using the stores equipment at the store. He was having the customers make extract kits, but after we talked for awhile, and I showed him this site and the biabacus, he did some experimenting and now is doing full on all-grain BIAB for the brew-on-premise. He uses an engine hoist (that was already in the shop and not being used), to lift the bags out of the pot and put them in a mesh strainer, where he does a sparge. He does 10 gallon batches as the standard brew-on-premise session. Instead of lining the pot with the bag, he fills two bags with grains and ties them off, and just lets them float in the kettle (and does lots of stirring during a 45 minute mash). He uses the typical large straining bag that you can buy at homebrew stores for the bag.
Here is a link to a youtube commercial he made to advertise the brew-on-premise, the name of the store is My Old Kentucky Homebrew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJECX9vDGuM
Post #2 made 10 years ago
Well done to you jr 
,
Good video - not an educational one - but nice to watch and listen to
. Next step will be to see if you can explain the benefits of a 90 minute mash so as he can forget the sparging.
Top job!
,Good video - not an educational one - but nice to watch and listen to
. Next step will be to see if you can explain the benefits of a 90 minute mash so as he can forget the sparging.Top job!
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Post #3 made 10 years ago
I can definitely see that Biab would work wonderfully at "you brews."
My only concern with the method used is the bags of grains. How well are the inner most grains being washed? To me the the grains would swell with water possibly filling the space in the bag and blocking the water from reaching the grains in the middle.
Cool to see tho; Thanks
My only concern with the method used is the bags of grains. How well are the inner most grains being washed? To me the the grains would swell with water possibly filling the space in the bag and blocking the water from reaching the grains in the middle.
Cool to see tho; Thanks
Some people are like slinkies. Not good for much, but bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
Weehoosebrewing.ga
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Post #4 made 10 years ago
Lumpy..He ties the bags pretty loosely and stirs (pokes at them) a lot, and I think that gets at the grains in the middle.
PP..I can try, but I doubt I'll ever convince him not to sparge. Whenever I tell all grain people who don't do BIAB that I don't sparge, they always looks at me with a blank stare, and say something like "but you have to sparge!". Oh-well, maybe someday, I'm just pretty excited he trusts it as much as he does.
I guess what helped to convince him is that there is a local brewery doing something similar to BIAB on a large scale. They mash in their brew kettle and pull the grains out (I assume with some sort of big mesh screen), and then start their boil.
PP..I can try, but I doubt I'll ever convince him not to sparge. Whenever I tell all grain people who don't do BIAB that I don't sparge, they always looks at me with a blank stare, and say something like "but you have to sparge!". Oh-well, maybe someday, I'm just pretty excited he trusts it as much as he does.
I guess what helped to convince him is that there is a local brewery doing something similar to BIAB on a large scale. They mash in their brew kettle and pull the grains out (I assume with some sort of big mesh screen), and then start their boil.
Post #5 made 10 years ago
That's great jr . Would love to hear, know more about the large acale brewery as well if you can get more info. As for the sparging...
Please keep us posted of any changes etc
,
PP
. Would love to hear, know more about the large acale brewery as well if you can get more info. As for the sparging...It's definitely a hard concept for anyone to get their head around and understandably so. I've been trying for a long time now to come up with analogies that make it easier to understand why full volume brewing works just as well. My latest attempts have been in this thread. That contains several analogies plus a new one - see the part of this post called, "The Sponge and Where We Get Confused." I think that is the bet one I have to date and might 'click' for several brewers.jrodie wrote:PP..I can try, but I doubt I'll ever convince him not to sparge. Whenever I tell all grain people who don't do BIAB that I don't sparge, they always looks at me with a blank stare, and say something like "but you have to sparge!".
Please keep us posted of any changes etc
,PP
Last edited by PistolPatch on 03 Jan 2015, 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #6 made 10 years ago
I don't know that I agree. I think we are often too harsh with those who are new to BIAB - or who come to BIAB after other methods that include an active sparge.PistolPatch wrote:It's definitely a hard concept for anyone to get their head around and understandably so.
People are mot stupid (well on voting day they are stupid. but otherwise ...)
When I researched going all grain (using this site and other places), I was led to BIAB and it was pretty much immediately clear that BIAB meant Full Volume Mashing and that the rinse (sparge) occurred IN the full volume of brewing water. What was perhaps not stated, but what I understood quickly was that NO SEPARATE sparge step was needed. Maybe that is language we who BIAB need to emphasize .. no separate step !
People will still dunk and sparge and squeeze until they find their own comfort zone, but that is in part because they have read excellent material from Palmer and Miller and Charlie and Jamil, and what do all of them say ?? Sparge !! It is accepted after centuries of practice.
So when something new is proposed, and when that something is a radical shift from so much of what you have heard and read, you will have early adopters but not millions of them.
Get your LHBS owner to READ ... tell him what you want him to read, and why, and let him know that you believe and trust that NO SEPARATE STEP is needed. Maybe he will let you do a demo in the shop.
Just my 2 cents .. you guys all have way more experience than I do.
Last edited by soccerdad on 03 Jan 2015, 21:47, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #7 made 10 years ago
PP..I'll ask the owner of the store more about the brewery, maybe I could even get to take some pictures of the equipment. I think one reason that sparging still might be best for the BOP (I like the term "you brew" by the way), is because most of the customers are going to be people who are just doing this for one time. So asking them to sit around for 90 minutes might be a harder sell, than to sit for 45 minutes, and now we have this extra activity for you to do.
Post #8 made 10 years ago
Hi Soccerdad,
Re:
"...that BIAB meant Full Volume Mashing and that the rinse (sparge) occurred IN the full volume of brewing water. What was perhaps not stated, but what I understood quickly was that NO SEPARATE sparge step was needed..."
Sparge trial: Once I began full volume BIAB I ceased any form of sparging. After 25 F/V batches I decided to 'muck around' (experiment...?) with adding a batch sparge. Question for me: Would sparging three batches equal a palatable fourth? Or, a partigyle process result, but 'small beer' without the heavy...; blended beer anyone?
Normally, every 5/6 weeks I brew four batches over two days. This time I sparged each of the first three batches in the same spare water. i.e. Batch #1 heated to mash-out, pulled bag & fitted in second pot with spare water equally 60% of initial strike volume. Sparge water was preheated to mash-out temp. Reserved the sparge water and used it again for batches two and three. Each time reheated to mash-out temp. Added 10% more water at flame-on.
Result:
* 2/3rds the volume into fermenter of my normal process
* OG 1031 I was surprised to get this much sugar after full volume mashing/mash-out. Even for three grain bills combined.
* I just did this trial again as neighbouring 'small' beer drinkers asked me to brew more of the same. (but adding more spec grains at final mash-out)
Yuk! A lot of mucking around rather than just cutting the grain bill down and brewing a 'normal' batch.
Cheers...
Re:
"...that BIAB meant Full Volume Mashing and that the rinse (sparge) occurred IN the full volume of brewing water. What was perhaps not stated, but what I understood quickly was that NO SEPARATE sparge step was needed..."
Sparge trial: Once I began full volume BIAB I ceased any form of sparging. After 25 F/V batches I decided to 'muck around' (experiment...?) with adding a batch sparge. Question for me: Would sparging three batches equal a palatable fourth? Or, a partigyle process result, but 'small beer' without the heavy...; blended beer anyone?
Normally, every 5/6 weeks I brew four batches over two days. This time I sparged each of the first three batches in the same spare water. i.e. Batch #1 heated to mash-out, pulled bag & fitted in second pot with spare water equally 60% of initial strike volume. Sparge water was preheated to mash-out temp. Reserved the sparge water and used it again for batches two and three. Each time reheated to mash-out temp. Added 10% more water at flame-on.
Result:
* 2/3rds the volume into fermenter of my normal process
* OG 1031 I was surprised to get this much sugar after full volume mashing/mash-out. Even for three grain bills combined.
* I just did this trial again as neighbouring 'small' beer drinkers asked me to brew more of the same. (but adding more spec grains at final mash-out)
Yuk! A lot of mucking around rather than just cutting the grain bill down and brewing a 'normal' batch.
Cheers...
Post #9 made 10 years ago
thylacine, I have had your post above marked as something I have wanted to reply to before it slips away. It sounds like an excellent experiment but I/m not quite understanding what you did sorry. For example, I'm not sure if you sparged Batches 2 and 3 with plain water or the 'sweet liquor' from Batch 1 etc. I also thing you full volumed Batch 1 but am not sure???
It might take a while to write up in more detail but I for one would love to know your results
,
PP
It might take a while to write up in more detail but I for one would love to know your results
,PP
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Post #10 made 10 years ago
Hello PP,PistolPatch wrote:thylacine, I have had your post above marked as something I have wanted to reply to before it slips away. It sounds like an excellent experiment but I/m not quite understanding what you did sorry. For example, I'm not sure if you sparged Batches 2 and 3 with plain water or the 'sweet liquor' from Batch 1 etc. I also thing you full volumed Batch 1 but am not sure???
It might take a while to write up in more detail but I for one would love to know your results
PP
Yes, each of the three batches were sparged in the same 'sweet liquor'. Each batch was full volume (6.5-7L per kg) and had a mash-out @78c. Results are currently in last week of fermenting process.
This was my second go at making four beers out of three grain bills. Based on only two trials, but my processes have resulted in a 'small beer' (1031 into fermenter) that neighbours wanted more of, but I don't. Saved a few bucks on grain but won't drink much of the results myself. Bugger that!
So what else to do with those grains that still have some tasty sugars left? Enclosed link is an old one I use that has a well received product. i.e.. ANZAC bickie; just substitute the listed rolled oats with spent grain.
bestrecipes.com.au/recipe/anzac-biscuits-L79.html
Cheers
Last edited by thylacine on 13 Jan 2015, 16:18, edited 1 time in total.
Post #11 made 10 years ago
Thanks heaps thy. That all makes sense now. I have lots to write in reply but it might take a few days due to long normal work bours and computer playing up - typing this on my phone!
When I do write back here, one thing I'll talk about is how 100% kettle efficiency does not actually mean you have extracted all the sugars.
Later
When I do write back here, one thing I'll talk about is how 100% kettle efficiency does not actually mean you have extracted all the sugars.
Later
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Post #12 made 10 years ago
No worries. Re: "...I have lots to write in reply..."PistolPatch wrote:Thanks heaps thy. That all makes sense now. I have lots to write in reply but it might take a few days due to long normal work bours and computer playing up - typing this on my phone!
When I do write back here, one thing I'll talk about is how 100% kettle efficiency does not actually mean you have extracted all the sugars.
Later
This is not a practice I will be pursuing. I prefer a specific grain bill for each batch. i.e. not blending three recipes, each designed to highlight three different tastes, all into one. e.g. munich, rye, smoked
Thanks for your interest but write "lots" only if you think others may be keen.
Ta... :-)
Last edited by thylacine on 14 Jan 2015, 10:42, edited 1 time in total.
Post #13 made 10 years ago
Phew!!! I can do with a break from writing lots any time. Only two things to say...thylacine wrote:Thanks for your interest but write "lots" only if you think others may be keen.
1. The sparging, using firstly plain water I imagine on the first batch and then that sweet liquor on the second batch and then the resulting sweet liquor on the third batch would have resulted in 'runnings' from the fourth batch that were probably exactly the same gravity as the runnings from the first batch. In other words, subsequent spargings would have just resulted in a mixing of worts, not an increase in gravity (if the sparges were done well). Make sense?
2. I'm not sure if you know this but, even if you have a 100% efficiency into kettle, there will always be sugars left. A 100% kettle efficiency just means that you scored the same amount of sugar from our mash as they did in a 'Congress Mash'. If you mashed at a higher liquor to grain ratio and for longer etc, than a Congress Mash, then you can get over 100% efficiency into kettle. That is not the aim of brewing however. In some scenarios, a high kettle efficiency could even equate with low quality beer.
PP
P.S. If you are a masochist, read Congress Mash, this and this. Hard stuff to get your head around though.
Last edited by PistolPatch on 21 Jan 2015, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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